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Apr 12, 2018 10:50:23 GMT
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So I did this video, it has a dramatic title, just some of my thoughts. Enjoy? Posting here as it is a follow up to the one I did on forums a while ago and people seemed to enjoy the discussion around that. If people have tips on good car groups on facebook, or relevant observations* I'd like to hear them. See if we can make the world a better place by improving these things. *"I'm not on facebook" is not a relevant observation
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,938
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Apr 12, 2018 19:41:23 GMT
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Interesting video and I agree with quite a few of the sentiments in it
I've had mixed experiences with car groups on facebook, I don't tend to be part of the 'general' car groups (although I joined a track car based one recently which seems to be mostly people talking about their BMW's) but when I do first get a car I tend to have a quick search on facebook to see if there is a specific group for it (as well as look for specific forums).
For the types of car that I've bought, I've found forums to be better (found two good forums for my Jag XJ40 and Saab 9-3 but not much in the way of facebook groups). Conversely I'm on a moderately busy forum for my BMW E34, but the two E34 facebook groups I'm on are very active.
The two E34 groups are interesting because one is fairly heavily moderated and is smaller, the other one is larger and seems to be less tightly moderated. To the point that I had a bit of a 'run in' on the larger group and don't use it as much. I suppose facebook tends to see people more willing to launch into an argument than you get on forums?
I do find you get more 'basic' questions on facebook, like you can get the "what oil is best for my car?" question seemingly 3 or 4 times a day, several times a week. I suppose part of this is the fact that posts hang around for a little bit then drop away to be lost forever, so there's little knowledge retention.
But then another part of that is that people appear in general to be 'lazy', they can hop on a fb group ask a quick question about their car, get a ton of answers and be on their way, rather than searching through a forum for an answer and working out the consensus on what is best.
One thing I have found facebook somewhat good for, is buying/selling. I recently sold my car on there, and while you do get a lot of time wasters (as seems to be the case everywhere) you can sell on groups that help direct your item towards people who are most likely interested. Conversely, you find people often having to bump their items to keep them at the top of the page, if the item isn't interesting.
On the other hand I've seen more car parts bargains on facebook than ebay these days, maybe the fact that posts can drop quite quickly helps this? So bits are offered at much cheaper prices because that drives interest, keeps the post up and increases the chance of a sale?
Bit of a rambling post but those are some of my observations! On balance I prefer a good forum to a facebook group, but for some cars, it can be hard to find an active enough forum, which is where the facebook groups come in handy as you said in your Wartburg example
Edit: On a more positive note, East Coast Retros is a decent fb group that I'm on, even though I don't actually live in the East currently!
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2018 11:52:12 GMT by adam73bgt
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Apr 12, 2018 20:24:26 GMT
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I agree with the sentiments, especially about how a groups usefulness shrinks as its size grows, with the exception of maybe some 'showcase' groups like taildragger Thursday. I tend to be a member of smaller model specific groups for cars I own because of this, rather than larger more general groups.
One important element you didn't mention is how redulously time-critical the algorithms that run FB are. Whilst this is great for some things, like buying and selling groups, for everything else If you don't see something within a few hours of it being posted, you won't at all- unless your followed friends are active on it. This makes FB entirely useless as any kind of reference source. Instagram is much better for that sort of thing I find.
Edit- just seen Adams reply and I'd agree east coast retros gets the balance right. Its grown beyond just a geographic groups now, I regularly see posts of there from friends who I know live quite far away. It's kinda how forums used to be way back, a mix of spots, 'look at what I'm up to' posts, sales and fairly relevant links to related topics. I don't know how heavily trigger and roo/whoever else moderate it, but it works.
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Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018 20:29:47 GMT by Dez
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Apr 12, 2018 23:44:52 GMT
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Imho FB car communities don't suck, they just have a different clientele from places like here.
A lot of people now don't know much about cars. I know I don't compared with some on here. Some people are just interested in newer cars, some just don't give a toss about them full stop!
I'd rather have the FB car communities than the 'don't give a toss about them full stop' brigade.
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I find it depends on the group. I have found groups such as Young Retro Motor Club and the Supporters of the Wartburg Trabant IFA Club UK to be very informative and on topic.
However I have equally joined some (a particularly bad one catering to a certain British 4x4 vehicle) which are just toxic. The amount of politics and calling people snowflakes is enough to rival local newspaper comment sections. As you said in the video, we don't want to see funny animal videos in car groups, neither should we want to read about emotive politics related to Brexit, race relations and asylum seekers.
I've seen some get disgruntled by the whole "Front end Friday" gimmicks and such. This obviously has a shelf-life, but similar features worked on forums for years too, so I'd call that an evolution as such.
One of the reasons I frequently read this forum, as well as sparingly post, is that this is a better source of information. As you said, it's more organised on forums and leads to larger posts. It's just a shame that Photobucket threw a hissy-fit and killed all of the older photos.
A good video and some very well thought out points. Keep it up!
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Project - 1990 Trabant 601 Daily - 2006 Saab 93
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 986
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Apr 13, 2018 10:40:33 GMT
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The issue I've found is people assuming posters know what they're doing. They're a member of a group so must know what they're talking about - at least that's how others have viewed the replies. Often I can't see any benefit from contributing with a proper bit of advice as it'll get lost amongst the swamp of people tags a comments saying they're following. Many times the bad advice is followed as gospel, so you end up popping around at a later date or making a phone call to get a friend out of the mire.
With forums, reprotation follows posters around and there's generally less curse word. You also get to see at a glance whether or not you've received a good reply of help.
Facebook is there for for quick replies, keeping in mind everyone has an equal voice. Forums are where you exchange knowledge. Their biggest downside being that occasionally this can feel intimidating to new users.
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2018 10:42:20 GMT by ferny
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Apr 13, 2018 11:43:50 GMT
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I agree that Facebook posts lack the depth of information that you get on a forum. The VW Split Screen Van Club now sees more traffic through Facebook than the forum and people do ask the same very basic questions repeatedly. I know we all have to start somewhere but it is a bit of a lazy way of finding out.
However, I am a member of a local, all cars group, The Northern Retro. This works well as it is mostly about interesting cars spotted locally and other general retro 'stuff'. As a result, people don't often post technical questions or project pics. The other difference is that is run by a couple of lads who are quite active. They moderate out negative comments and also organise regular meets and a full-on show in the summer.
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67 VW Split bus 69 Beetle Cab 96 Jeep Cherokee XJ Sport
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Apr 13, 2018 21:11:53 GMT
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Never been on Facebook so never had an account so I have no idea what your all chatting about! Been tempted a few times to join as forums are a bit slow some days.
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b3nson
Part of things
Posts: 886
Club RR Member Number: 22
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I agree on alot of points.
The Integra DC2 forum is all but dead now, whereas the Facebook group is very alive. This poses problems in that it just promotes the same questions again and again on the FB group, where no doubt the forum has these answers stored.
It is alot better than some other FB groups I'm in as they just end being 'here's a photo of my car I washed today' 'where's the cheapest place for my insurance' and pointless memes.
Organising/finding events and meets is where Facebook wins IMO. And also for selling/buying parts and cars as the groups there seem to have the most content in one place. Although while we're on that subject if anyone has any pointers for buying wheels online (FB groups/forums) let me know!
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'99 Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo '08 Panda 100HP
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Apr 14, 2018 11:21:37 GMT
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I think the interesting question to ask is why do the hardcore FB'ers not go on the forums any more/if at all/never have?
I see a lot of people on FB that I never see on forums, and a lot of vehicles as well.
Why do they think forum communities suck (but not all)?
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Apr 14, 2018 13:11:20 GMT
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Why do they think forum communities suck (but not all)? Here are some thoughts
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Apr 14, 2018 17:14:03 GMT
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I only joined Facebook a couple of years ago (as I turned 40) and everyone kept telling me how good it was for car stuff and how I should get on there "so I did" I'm only on there for cars and bikes I'm not interested in who's eating what at what restaurant etc etc
I agree with most of the points and as said already it does make a big difference on each group
Example I like the retro stuff but there's probably 4 big groups maybe more and I'm on them all But if there was a retro show or race event at the weekend il be seeing the same photos/vids across all groups time and time again (and il only like a photo once) So they become quite boring
But the more exclusive groups (like a one make group) are quite handy Recently I was looking at buying a MGF but as I started looking I realised I didn't know much about them So I joined a MGF group and they were very helpful
As for the technical side I never take anything I read on the Internet as gospel Ask a question see what's the most common answer and then use that as a guide Facebook is the worst for people commenting/answering questions when they don't know what there talking about (hearsay) "my dads mates best friends done it and it works" drill some holes in the air box and you'll get 1000bhp type stuff
But it is very good for getting your car noticed I have a built thread on here and people look at it some like it some don't it may be of help to some etc But it will never go any further than the inside of this forum But you can post up a couple of photos in the right group on Facebook and before you know it it's been shared and liked loads of times globally
Horses for courses I'm not a massive Facebook fan and I find myself just going on there to kill time sometimes But it Can be handy I still prefer forums Due to build threads and there seams to be more knowledgeable people on there
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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Apr 14, 2018 18:24:44 GMT
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I think the interesting question to ask is why do the hardcore FB'ers not go on the forums any more/if at all/never have? I see a lot of people on FB that I never see on forums, and a lot of vehicles as well. Why do they think forum communities suck (but not all)? Personally, I find forums fiddly to use on a phone. Whereas Facebook is really easy. I only visit this forum when I use my laptop. Therein may lie the problem I guess.
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Project - 1990 Trabant 601 Daily - 2006 Saab 93
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Apr 14, 2018 18:35:04 GMT
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The Pontiac OC has a web forum that has very little going on in it, I mean VERY LITTLE. The FB club page however..... I'm not a fan of FB car communities, todays FB pic and thread is one you will have a load of trouble trying to find weeks down the line. I like the proper forums, this one, for example, I can go back to a thread that was dead long long ago and bring it back into the here and now. I accept that what you look at Social media/web content with may determine what you actually prefer to look at and your age will also have a bearing on what type of media you choose to view and participate on but, no, give me a proper structured forum any day of the week.
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Apr 14, 2018 22:46:01 GMT
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Interesting what you said about farcebook removing, losing, or deleting photos. I've noticed over the years that several of my photos, or even whole albums have gone AWOL on farcebook, and I have always asumed that somehow I messed up, and deleted them myself or something. Perhaps I need to re-think things where farcebook is concerend as I only really use it to store my favourite photos so that should I find myself at a ripe old age, and dribbling into my cornflakes in an old folks home I will still be able to access my photos and memories on the book of faces! But if they delete them willy-nilly maybe what I should be thinking about is creating actual albums that you can hold in your hand like the old days!
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Apr 14, 2018 23:30:20 GMT
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Never been on fb or indeed ever looked at anything on it & I feel my life is far better for it, go figure. Do love RR though
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Last Edit: Apr 14, 2018 23:31:00 GMT by rattlecan
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Apr 14, 2018 23:41:33 GMT
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Ah you're not missing much rattlecan. I know people who are pretty much addicted to it, but like I say, I only really use it for photo storage, and by all accounts thats not as good as I thought it was!
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 537
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I for one don't like facebook....I especially don't like the fact that I feel i need to be on it. I'll explain, i feel i need to be on it because so many people, normal middle aged people, i.e. pretty much all my friends in real life, conduct all their business, chatting meeting up etc on there, no one just picks up the phone and gives anyone a call.... it is annoying, but if I want to be included in anything i have to be on facebook, otherwise my sparse social calendar is a wasteland......hmmmm that might mean that they feel obliged to invite me because i am on facebook... But that's beside the point, facebook car forums, they suck, for all the reasons stated in the posts and vids above. The quick turnaround of posts, the fact that anyone with no brain can post up 'advice' and it is taken as gospel...this one mainly as it can turn out to be dangerous or illegal, (more about that later). The stupid cat videos, and other decidedly 'not funny' jokes and memes that i'd probably laugh at if i was 5. The nasty bigotry that pervades the whole lot of it. I am part of the VVOC (viva club) and a recent post on the facebook site was from a woman wanting info about a viva she'd picked up, and some loon started in on her saying she was lying about her car being genuine and they never did that model blah blah blah etc etc ( he was wrong obviously), so she disabled posts. Then the same Loon started his own post about her car and saying she was a liar etc etc bah blah....it got 140 plus comments, some of then agreeing with the idiot, and a good number posting up brochure pages showing the poor girls model saying it did exist and the 'Loon' still said she was wrong...I mean, how do you deal with this idiocy? ? If it's still on the page i suggest you have a look, it beggars belief... AND another post stated that you can chop the floorpan out of your car and replace it with the floorpan of another from a DIFFERENT car and it's ok, you don't have to declare it as it's the same as patch repairing, so won't need inspecting! and people agreed this to be the case... and when it was pointed out that the car in question would need an IVA at the very least or it was illegal, the other guy got irate and aggressive and ranted on that he didn't care if it was legal or not.... yeah so thats why facebook sucks.. it's full of idiots. did i go off point? i feel as if i ranted a bit ...sorry... I much prefer forums, they, for the most part, provide good advice and helpful hints etc, and you can check back on past posts for info ...
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I don't particularly think the idiot ratio on FB is higher than 'real life' tbh. Yes it's full of bigots, racists, religious fundimentalists, nationalists, etc. But that's because they're all around you in real life too. At least on FB they're generally exercising their mouths so they're easy to identify.
I daily drive an American cars/hotrods etc and pretty much every interaction I have with the great unwashed is retarded. Going up to someone you don't know and saying 'you car is old' or 'your car is big/has a big engine' makes you look nuts, then you're expected to engage in polite conversation with said person and agree with them just because they decided to engage you in a conversation you didn't want to be in.
Tbh these days I just assume that 95% of all people are knobbers. Obviously that means I associate with hardly anyone, so Facebook is a useful tool to me for keeping in touch with the 5% or so of people I actually like.
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2018 8:29:09 GMT by Dez
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Apr 15, 2018 14:21:51 GMT
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Ah you're not missing much rattlecan. I know people who are pretty much addicted to it, but like I say, I only really use it for photo storage, and by all accounts thats not as good as I thought it was! Hi, Yes, if you want to protect your pics don't keep them on other peoples computers. You run the risk of of them being lost to you and the resolution will be reduced. Colin
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