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Feb 25, 2018 20:21:56 GMT
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Hi all,
I am very much wanting to scratch the itch of a VVC Metro at the moment but am finding that most cars for sale pre-converted are still registered as 1.1 or 1.4. Saving a few quid on tax doesn't really seem worth the risk of legal action etc if found out. I know that a few years ago it was just a matter of sending the V5 back to the DVLA with the new engine number and capacity but I hear that they now demand proof of the identity of the engine fitted. This is obviously not something I will be able to do.
Can anyone offer any advise on this? There are some good cars out there that I dare not touch at the moment because of this which is a shame.
Thanks
James
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Feb 25, 2018 22:35:21 GMT
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there's no difference in tax as they are both under 1540cc, and pre 2001.
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Feb 25, 2018 22:51:18 GMT
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I had to deal with this when I converted my 73 Triumph Toledo from it's stock 1300 to a 1998cc Vauxhall engine, back in 2011 when the legislation was fresh. I had NO provenance on the engine whatsoever, i'd removed it from a scrap Carlton some 6 or 7 years earlier and couldn't even remember the reg number, nor did I ever have the V5 or a bill of sale! I started the build before the legislation was introduced and didn't want my pride and joy impounded and crushed for tax fraud, which it would have been, had I taxed the 2 litre car as a 1300 (different tax groups then, now it's a VED free historic)For a while I was extremely worried! There is, however, a loophole that I exploited. You can get the vehicle certified and inspected by an authorised official of the relevant owners club (in my case, the local Area Organiser of the TSSC did it, with some helpful backup from TSSC HQ) Get it on the owners club letterheaded paper and DVLA will accept it! Hope this helps, Steve PFA  |
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awoo
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,506
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Feb 25, 2018 23:24:50 GMT
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I have just gone through this with a motorbike. the bloke before wasn't bothered about it but I didn't want to run it illegally. it has a larger engine in it than the v5 says and it takes it in to a higher tax band. I have changed it to be legit but I can't tax it and run it until the v5 is back in my hand, 4 weeks waiting according to dvla lady on the phone. using the down time to restore it. wasn't ever the intention...
just change the capacity on the v5 before you send it off and you'll be ok.
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More importantly how much of the original shell / subframe needs altering to get it to fit ? That is the more important question as it may take you outside 8 points system and into the world of BIVA .
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Feb 26, 2018 10:53:58 GMT
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More importantly how much of the original shell / subframe needs altering to get it to fit ? That is the more important question as it may take you outside 8 points system and into the world of BIVA . K series replacing K series, so nothing at all. |
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Feb 26, 2018 13:27:45 GMT
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VVC are 1.8 so tax will change.
If you think there might be drama with dvla I'd find one with correct details on the V5 or drive very hard bargains on those that aren't.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:56:26 GMT
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Thank you for all of the feedback. It has pretty much confirmed what I suspected, it can be done but is a pain. Anything that can be used to get a better price can't be bad.
James
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Feb 26, 2018 23:31:38 GMT
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You know, if you look really, really hard through all the paperwork, you might find a very recent receipt from a garage that did the conversion. A lot of these small garages use pretty run of the mill IT equipment - you know, a basic letterheaded receipt done on MS Word or similar, outlining the engine fitted, with engine number and capacity, the price, and the date of course, just printed on regular old A4 paper on the kind of printer you might find in your own workplace, or even at home. And some of these small outfits... well, when you go and look them up just to see whether the warranty was still valid, or to ask if they would do your mate's car... would you believe it, they've gone under and the industrial unit on the letterheaded receipt is now some kind of company selling beds or random electrical gizmos from China. Well, I guess these sorts of outfits don't last long and the DVSA don't need to contact them in any case. But look on the bright side! You do have a receipt for the work done which you can send to the DVSA and satisfy their requirements to get a new V5 with the correct engine number, engine size and you can pay Her Majesty's Government the correct amount of VED! Every cloud, and all that! So, I would advise you to have another very careful look through all that paperwork...  This has been my experience. Edit to add: I did think that the DVSA only required supporting documents if you were fitting a smaller engine and putting your car into a lower tax bracket, to prevent fraud. But it seems that they either request receipts for every V5 sent to them with an engine change, or they do it on a random basis and some v5s will just come back with the new number and capacity, and others will trigger a letter requesting a receipt for the conversion. Either way, finding "proof" is not really that difficult and the important thing is that your car is correctly registered and you're paying the correct amout of VED. |
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2018 9:49:24 GMT by BenzBoy
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Feb 27, 2018 10:10:13 GMT
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It's my understanding that the original purpose of the legislation was to clamp down on the supply of engines from stolen cars. But since they found exactly Zero nicked engines in the first 2 years (2011-12) they have mellowed out a bit.
Steve
PS, Benzboy, if your tongue was any further in your cheek, you wouldn't be able to talk! Love it! I have a garage business of my own and a computer letterhead like that!
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Feb 27, 2018 20:01:42 GMT
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It's my understanding that the original purpose of the legislation was to clamp down on the supply of engines from stolen cars. But since they found exactly Zero nicked engines in the first 2 years (2011-12) they have mellowed out a bit. Steve PS, Benzboy, if your tongue was any further in your cheek, you wouldn't be able to talk! Love it! I have a garage business of my own and a computer letterhead like that! Aah, so that's the reason for it! It is a bit of an unnecessary hoop to jump through. My business stationery is also just done on a regular printer. Glad you enjoyed my... erm... theoretical idea! |
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When I bought my Midas in June 2011 the original engine (a Mini Cooper S lump) had been removed and sold on, but the original engine number was on the existing V5. When I sent the new V5 off with my details I simply added the new engine number (from the engine in bits included in the sale) in the "New Details" section and sent it off. New V5 came back with new engine number. Now, these 2 engines were the same size so it might not be as straightforward as you'll be going up a tax band and more information will likely be required.
But to all those buying a car with the same size engine but different number, this option is probably best.
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When I converted the tr to V8 all I had to do was get an MOT inspector to confirm the engine number and capacity on a letter headed with his business details.
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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You know, if you look really, really hard through all the paperwork, you might find a very recent receipt from a garage that did the conversion. A lot of these small garages use pretty run of the mill IT equipment - you know, a basic letterheaded receipt done on MS Word or similar, outlining the engine fitted, with engine number and capacity, the price, and the date of course, just printed on regular old A4 paper on the kind of printer you might find in your own workplace, or even at home. And some of these small outfits... well, when you go and look them up just to see whether the warranty was still valid, or to ask if they would do your mate's car... would you believe it, they've gone under and the industrial unit on the letterheaded receipt is now some kind of company selling beds or random electrical gizmos from China. Well, I guess these sorts of outfits don't last long and the DVSA don't need to contact them in any case. But look on the bright side! You do have a receipt for the work done which you can send to the DVSA and satisfy their requirements to get a new V5 with the correct engine number, engine size and you can pay Her Majesty's Government the correct amount of VED! Every cloud, and all that! So, I would advise you to have another very careful look through all that paperwork... This has been my experience. Edit to add: I did think that the DVSA only required supporting documents if you were fitting a smaller engine and putting your car into a lower tax bracket, to prevent fraud. But it seems that they either request receipts for every V5 sent to them with an engine change, or they do it on a random basis and some v5s will just come back with the new number and capacity, and others will trigger a letter requesting a receipt for the conversion. Either way, finding "proof" is not really that difficult and the important thing is that your car is correctly registered and you're paying the correct amout of VED. THIS ^^^ I fitted a 1300 CVH (that I’d removed from another SS1 I owned) into an SS1 in place of its original 1600 CVH, made up a receipt (I’m a limited company but not vehicle repairs) and had no problems at all. |
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pow
Part of things
Posts: 110 
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Mar 15, 2018 16:25:46 GMT
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First thing you do is send the log book off with the amended cc (and fuel type if needed) and a couple of photos with a polite covering letter and it'll come back no problem. Did a '71 VW bus from a 1.6 pegga to a 1.9TDi in 2013 with no problems what so ever, log book came back saying heavy oil 1896cc capacity.
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I had quite a bit of bother getting the v5 changed on a petrol bmw 1.9 over to a 2.5 diesel after we did the conversion on it. Had to send the headed receipt off along with a letter about 4 times. Kept coming back asking for more details (ones that were already supplied in the letter, obviously were not being read.)
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[*]
This has been my experience.
