Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Nov 24, 2004 18:57:38 GMT
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Hello Retro-Riders!
I thought that I would jot down my current project for all to read about!
The Car: 1974 Morris Marina Coupe Colour: Harvest Gold Wheels: Weller 8 Spokes (But I want a set of cosmics..)
The Engine: 2 litre 16 Valve T Series Rover (non turbo)
Fitting this engine is no big problem as the T series engine actually derived from the O series (late Marina and Ital) so converting it to rear wheel drive is no real head ache!
In preparation for the conversion I have made significant changes to the suspension using coil over dampers on the front and a custom designed lower wishbone. The rear will have sway bars from a Lada riva and again a set of coil dampers (Adjustable).
One of the main areas I am designing at the moment is the fuelling system. This is no real problem so long as you get the correct pumps, filters, regulators and of course a swirl pot.
Because I wanted to use EFI and not carbs (Webbers are just too expensive and SU's need too much work on the manifold!) I have had to opt for the DIYer's approach. In my mind this is by far the best way as you can do the job on less than half the cost of the professionals! All I will be using is a twin pump system from a Vauxhall and a custom built swirl pot. This is run on a single feed line from the tank and two return lines from the regulator and also the swirl pot.
If I start a project I always want to get the best possible finish I can on the cheapest budget. This means lots of hard grafting and hopefully not much wallet waving!
The final product will hopefully be ready for the summer shows and with 150bhp at the flywheel I should have quite a ;D on my face!
Has anyone fitted EFI to a classic? I am always open to suggestions and that’s why this forum is sooo cool.
There is a list of parts I am in need of below (I will also add it to the For Sale/Wanted section of the site) If anybody comes across these bits can you drop me a line: ben@morrismarina.net
Injector Manifold from a 2ltr Discovery Mpi (T Series) Rover 420 ECU (mine is so badly damaged) Cavalier 2ltr Fuel pumps (there are two) A set of cosmic alloys (3.75pcd)
Thank You to Retro-Rides for this forum. It is an invaluable resource!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Nov 24, 2004 19:00:40 GMT
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Nov 24, 2004 19:06:38 GMT
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Nov 24, 2004 19:18:44 GMT
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Yeah that was one of the shows on me list!
I'm gald there is another lover of harvest gold BL cars!!!!!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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EFI For The Marina 16vBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Nov 24, 2004 19:55:42 GMT
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I'm very interested in your project as I'm building an efi system too! (Along with a zillion other things I have to do on the project! ) I'm a bit rubbish when it comes to Brit engines - was the T-series engine ever fitted with EFI? If so it might be easier to do that - grab all the sensors and gubbins. What kind of EFI set-up are you building? If you're wanting a Rover 420 ECU, I'd guess you're building a Bosch L-Jet system? You didn't mention sensors, but will you have problems with knock sensors and the like being absent (if your block doesn't have one) - the 420 ECU will be looking for stuff like that and if it's not there it might confuddle it! Have you thought about a DIY ECU? I've just taken delivery of a Megasquirt kit (cost: about £70-80), and the sensors, injectors and stuff can be sourced from scrapyards. Have a look at www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.htmlThat way the system is totally mappable to your application and you can fine-tune it (via laptop) to work perfectly. My only reservation with the Rover 420 ECU would be that it is mapped for the 420's characteristics: weight, aerodynamics, etc., and putting it in something different might lessen efficiency. I'm assuming a lot here, as I don't know the ins and outs of your project or the T-Series engine, but I thought I'd just chuck some ideas at ya!
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Nov 24, 2004 20:13:56 GMT
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I'm a bit rubbish when it comes to Brit engines - was the T-series engine ever fitted with EFI? If so it might be easier to do that - grab all the sensors and gubbins. Yeah good point BenzBoy. why don't you track down an M-series injection system? there must be loads around
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Nov 24, 2004 20:21:19 GMT
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Cheers for the heads up! www.cosic.org.uk/T-SeriesKB/rwd4x4.htm The guy here has been my man source of advice so far, the Rover 420 ECU will only work with the alarm system fitted to the car, so the easiest solution would be to use an alarm from either the car or what I'm hopfully going to do, buy a new alarm system and wire that it to the loom. A quote from www.torquecars.co.uk/Rover/220-gti-engine.phpSo hopefully following the key rules: Ignition sensor Alarm System crash sensor I should be able to over come the problems. Thankfully I have a friend that works for LDV and is their engine electrics person and he will build the loom for me with all the correct parts....hopefully!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Nov 24, 2004 20:32:22 GMT
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HOORAY! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Your car sounds great by the way! You'll get used to this, don't worry...... ;D ;D ;D I've got a Vauxhall EFI engine in my MK1 Sceptre, obviously a lot easier as I kept the original system for the engine, but a couple of points that may be stating the obvious, but here goes.... You need a bigger outlet on the fuel tank, asuming you're using the original, and I belive the pump(s) need to be mounted level with or below the outlet to keep them full (I belive they seize if run dry, and they don't 'suck' fuel like a conventional electric fuel pump) I ran the return into a T piece in the pipe from the tank from the pump and vented the tank, If you run the return back into the tank I don't THINK you'll need to vent it. Good luck with the swap, you'll find plenty of encoragement on here..... ;D
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... the only injury I sustained was a bumped head when I let the seatbelt of without realizing the car was upside down and that's not really the car's fault.
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Nov 24, 2004 20:53:07 GMT
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Yeah I did hear about the pumps having to be lower than the outlet, thank you for reminding me! I could easily have made that silly mistake and been scratching my head for a long time!
Thankfully I got hold of a brand new tank for the Marina (not an eaisy part to find!) So I can start from scratch. I did see one person on the net fit EFi to a mustang I think and he made the inlet to the tank on the sender, he just drilled and fitted a new pipe! I'm toying with the idea of modifiying the overflow inlet on the top of the tank...
What size fuel tubing do you use on your sceptre?
Ben
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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EFI For The Marina 16vBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Nov 24, 2004 22:39:09 GMT
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All this fuel tank stuff is useful to me too! You see I was thinking of using my standard un-modded tank with an in-line fuel pump from something like a V12 Jag running thru a filter and then into a smaller catch tank which can be pressurised. Then on to the engine, and a return straight back into the tank. I must say I haven't given it an awful lot of thought as I have other stuff to do before I get to that stage, but now I'm not so sure I'm going about it the right way The MEMS fuel system is really alien to me, but in the cosic.org link he doesn't really go into detail about the sensors the ECU uses (unless I was looking in the wrong place!!) - I would have thought at the very least it would use a coolant temp sensor, intake air sensor, throttle position switch, lambda sensor, possibly a knock sensor... However most of this stuff would be needed anyway, whether it's a transplanted EFI or an aftermarket one. That alarm business sounds like a headache too - would it be easier (both to find and to fit) an earlier 820 ECU? The "learning" element of the MEMS seems really trick! I guess then after 200mls it will learn to adapt both to the car and the driver's style... very clever!! Keep us posted on the project - it sounds really interesting, and this kind of "junkyard technology" is right up my street!!
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Benmarina16v
Part of things
1974 2ltr 16 Valve Marina Coupe 200Bhp On The Way
Posts: 414
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Nov 25, 2004 18:13:12 GMT
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Yeah I think I will fit an earlier 820 ECU just so I can get it running. I have all the sensors on the engine still and all the circuit diagrams so that my mate can create the new loom.
I will have to email the guy from cosic.org just to make sure I am on the right track!
There are plenty of early 820's in our local scrap yard (it's like a time warp back to the late 80's it even has some older cars!) So I will get a few and check them out. The one part I am in need of the most has to be the Discovery Mpi injection manifold and throttle body! Otherwise I have to modifiy the one I have to get the body on the opposite side! Not a job I want to do.
Junk Yard modding/fixing is sooo cool. So long as the parts are corretly fitted and checked out prior to fitment. You can save so much money in the right yard! Although there is one place near me that is just run by some guy that thinks he can make a profit out of anything! He said that a gear knob I found for the Marina had "Rarity Value"... He wanted £10 for it!!!!!
On the other hand the yard I use is 5 mins away from my unit and they don't mind me woundering around and clambering up the cars and they are fair on prices!
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'87 2.8 Ford Capri '74 2.0 16V Marina Coupe '72 1800TC Saloon '72 1800TC Coupe -------------------------------------------- www.morrismarina.net
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Nov 25, 2004 18:56:17 GMT
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Yeah I did hear about the pumps having to be lower than the outlet, thank you for reminding me! I could easily have made that silly mistake and been scratching my head for a long time! Thankfully I got hold of a brand new tank for the Marina (not an eaisy part to find!) So I can start from scratch. I did see one person on the net fit EFi to a mustang I think and he made the inlet to the tank on the sender, he just drilled and fitted a new pipe! I'm toying with the idea of modifiying the overflow inlet on the top of the tank... What size fuel tubing do you use on your sceptre? Ben I used 13mm i.d hose from the tank to the pump and 8mm pipe for the feed/return, as per the original Vauxhall set up. I was lucky in that I had a spare tank that I knew hadn't been used for years, so I could weld a new larger outlet pipe in. The first pump I tried came off the Nova GTE the engine came from, but was seized, the second one seized because I didn't vent the tank (I think), so it was third time lucky......
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... the only injury I sustained was a bumped head when I let the seatbelt of without realizing the car was upside down and that's not really the car's fault.
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