glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,362
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 14:03:45 GMT
|
Strange question maybe, but I am, at her ladyship's behest, investigating the bangernomics/practicalities of running an elderly estate car as a limited mileage "backup car" that she and I can both fall back on in the event with she wants to do something with the dog/bicycles/anything else grubby, or the Land-Rover is unavailable/unsuitable for me. Initial thoughts were for a Merc, and a C-class petrol one might just scrape in under budget without a moonshot mileage, but I've been casting about for alternatives. Annual mileage is going to be low, a couple of thousand or so I'd have thought, so the economy benefits of a diesel are definitely outweighed by their potential for big bills and the dearer fuel. Not interested in anything that's going to cost £500+ a year to tax either. (A C240 is £305 a year, and I'm having palpitations at that TBH). I like the idea of a W124, but tidy ones are out of budget (£2K max), and buying something that's survived 30-odd years only to wreck it with kids, dogs and tip runs is sacrilegious IMHO. I'm not in the least bit interested in a Ford, Vauxhall or anything French. To be honest, anything VAG is probably out too as I (we) aren't inspired enough by elderly Passats/A4s or Octavias, and they all seem to be way dear or have interstellar mileages and loads of "minor niggle" faults that must actually be awkward fixes or people would have done them. Sarah wants something tidy, with leather, and I want something I don't have to immediately dive into to fix. Found a Volvo V70 on an X, in budget here: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322577289402 Which is old enough to be on the "more than 1500cc" fixed tax rate and fits the bill. But then I found this Saab: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201989862497 Which is obviously a p/x they want to move on asap, and is cheap enough to leave a chunk of money in the pot for unplanned expense... So, hive mind, what are your thoughts? You're free to call me a curse word, and to suggest any alternatives you can think of. Oh, and I tried suggesting a Trabant but she was having none of it! 😃 |
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
|
|
paul99
Part of things
Posts: 417 
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 14:46:55 GMT
|
|
V6 petrol was never a popular engine, less power and less economic than the 4 pot turbos, but nothing wrong particularly. Saabs cheap for what they are atm, and for £600, worth a punt. More helpful advice can be found on UKSaabs......
Edit. Not the most tunable either (again, the 2.3 more popular for that), depends on your thing. Auto only on V6. Later autos (post 06) get hammered for tax, hence cheaper.....
|
| |
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2017 15:45:56 GMT by paul99
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 15:00:28 GMT
|
|
wheres the elderly saab? I don't see one?
|
| |
|
|
rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 15:04:34 GMT
|
|
I looked at these Saabs and started noticing them on the hard shoulder and it kind of killed the dream for me. Then as if by pure chance my previously owned e36 touring family truckster came along and I snapped it up, undid all the damage and neglect the previous owner had done to it and now it's actually quite fun to commute in and with the 1.8 being the smallest engine/ amount of cylinders I own I thought it was going to bore me but after a few thousand miles of Italian tuning and good service its quite a revvy little thing that can keep up with Mr sales rep in his audi until approaching three figures and then it starts to run out of revs.
It is no worse on fuel than anything else I have. There are tweaks still needed but I am feeling like a bit of a 90's mid salary throwback driving it all suited up, especially on 'tie day' when I have meetings. This is a different feeling from when I feel like an 80's high rolling total banker in my 635.
The added bonus is that I have put 21 meters of turf in the back of the 318 and although it was a bit saggy, it got it home with no fuss. Probably could have squeezed more in but I didn't want to lay grass anywhere else. These little 1.8 engines also offer some scope for supercharging or turboting... see U tube for some rather ropey and some rather saucy conversions.
There are still some minty looking good ones around for 1.5-2 grandings. Downsides are the usual BMW killers and the touring can feel a little 'unsettled' at the rear when high speed meets worn road surface, but I'm talking like licence endorsing speeds. Also, I'm finding that I'm having to order, not much but a few little silly parts from Germany to make a bit of a saving but then if I was feeling flush, I could always go to BM themselves who have a fantastic parts service for older models, the E36 is in their 'classic' section now! I have decided to keep mine standard at this time and have opted for maximum reliability.
|
| |
1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi
1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack
2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8
2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 16:19:25 GMT
|
|
As you seem to have a preference for Mercedes, I might just have the perfect car for you if you can wait about 3 weeks and if your £2k max budget would just extend a little bit for the right car if it happened to have everything done and ready to go (ie new discs and pads and quality tyres all round, fresh MOT, full and thorough service...)
PM me if you'd like to know more.
All the best with your search either way.
Mike
|
| |
 Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
|
adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,004
Club RR Member Number: 58
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 18:05:12 GMT
|
|
I had a similar age Saab to that 9-5 but mine was a 9-3 Aero hatchback.
It was fairly cheap for what it was at £1100, and I kept it for a year as a daily in which time I put quite a few miles on it. However, it cost me a lot in repairs, cam chain needed changing, bulkhead needed welding and it needed a clutch etc.
By the time I got rid of it, the rust was starting to set in and I almost gave it away
The 9-5 is a slightly different beast, and having driven a couple (while my car was in for repairs) I found them fairly pleasant to drive, even when one was a 200k mile diesel!
So for me its a mixed bag, I'm not sure I could own one again having been through all the expense. But if you know that its been well looked after and isn't /too/ likely to give you major headaches then I'd say they're definitely worth a look as you do get quite a bit of car for your money.
(I wouldn't get that V6 one though, the 2.0 or 2.3 turbo can easily make that power and more with much better economy)
|
| |
|
|
|
|
eternaloptimist
Posted a lot
Too many projects, not enough time or space...
Posts: 2,578
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 18:45:13 GMT
|
|
I've got a 2003 2.3 Aero Stage 3+ estate, auto. 186k, I've added 30k in the last 15 months or so. Fabulously comfortable, quick and big. Parts are no problem and cheap, and there are plenty being broken. I'd stick with the 4 cylinders as well, the V6 petrol is decent, but the Aero's more fun. I get 32 mpg in mixed driving (not a huge amount of urban). Watchouts - early petrol cars (up to 2004) can have a problem with oil sludging due to a poor design PCV system (updated systems c. £40) and use of semi synthetics. Unless I was buying from an enthusiast who could show me pics of a dropped, cleaned sump and the latest PCV kit, it would be job 1. Not a highly complicated exercise, plenty of how to guides on UKSaabs and similar. I just put a new HG on mine to fix a v. stubborn oil leak (unusual but not unknown) and at the same time had the timing chains changed. Couldn't select any wear on the bores, the engine's good for another £100k easily (famous last words). No rust problems on mine, trim has stood up well to the mileage, seats are heated and vented (rare ish option).
They're not worth a lot - I've spent more on mine than I should have, but spread over 30k miles, it's not so bad.... You can pick up a decent one for £600 to £1200.
That V6 looks like a bargain potentially - all the toys inc. vented seats and heated rear seats. My local specialist looks after a one owner car with over 200k on the clock which still goes like a train. I'd be tempted to have a look at the MoT history, test drive it and offer £450....
Alternative choice - early, simple Subaru Legacy estate.
|
| |
XC70, VW split screen crew cab, Standard Ten
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
|
Would you buy an elderly Saab?ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
|
Jul 18, 2017 22:14:03 GMT
|
Legacy is a good choice. I've not had a Saab that old. My sister does own an '07 1.8t (read 2.0 with a very low pressure turbo) 9-3 'vert which I acquired off a mate. We bought it on 108k with it now being on 117k almost a year later. In that time it's had a full service and had the pad sliders cleaned along with a few bulbs. It's been great. I do know that with my friend the power steering hoses went and they were a little tricky to get ; it seems a few dealerships do still do Saab bits (Johnsons Hyundai in Coventry are one as are the renowned SaabParts). With a Ford or a BMW he could have obtained the parts within a day from the dealer. He ended up having his car off the road for a week while begging to borrow a car in that time. Being as he works in the middle of nowhere that was a pain in the bum for him. It's not the most fun thing to drive if I am honest but it's solid and seems very safe. The MPG is OK but not amazing. My M3 is not miles away in those stakes! To be fair adam73bgt didn't you inherit someone's issues when you bought that car however? I only say that as I've done the same in the past. I bought one Mondeo MkIII V6. Pretty much everything under the bonnet was changed, sometimes on more than one occasion (the owner after me ended up fitting another engine to it and another gearbox ; I suspected the HG had gone for the second time when in reality one of the two coolant hoses I hadn't changed was full of K Seal from the previous owner). The one after that was bought on the same mileage but better mechanically had very little changed in comparison ; I was mega picky buying one after the issues with the first car. Again, one I was fixing up almost weekly and used to think every time I drove it "Will it last me a week, ok, it's lasted me a week, will it last me....". The other I drove to Europe on more than one occasion without a hitch. |
| |
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2017 22:17:30 GMT by ChasR
|
|
adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,004
Club RR Member Number: 58
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 22:27:29 GMT
|
To be fair adam73bgt didn't you inherit someone's issues when you bought that car however? You are correct in part there, although some of the issues only became apparent after some time owning the car I think I'm trying to say be a bit wary of a bargain basement Saab in general as the issues can stack up and cost you a fair bit, especially PCV issues with the 4 pots as eternaloptimist says though thankfully that was one bullet I managed to dodge! |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 22:35:55 GMT
|
|
How about a rover 75 estate? Bargain basement now, diesels can be cheaply remapped to 160bhp from 135 or 115 with a well established map and some trusty dealers on the very supportive oc site. Issues all known by now.....and fixes generally cheap except clutches.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 23:27:39 GMT
|
|
On this side of the world the default option would be a '90s Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore wagon. New enough to be reliable and old enough to be cheap while not being so old as to have started going up in price due to rarity / collectible status. I realize of course that this is totally unhelpful information for anyone in the UK.
|
| |
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,362
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jul 18, 2017 23:40:59 GMT
|
|
Cheers folks, for all your input.
Whatever I get will be a "spare" car for my wife and I. She drives our new Octavia as a daily, and that's also the vehicle we use when holidaying etc. I've a 1959 Land-Rover that's my daily wheels (and which Sarah won't drive) , but I can walk to work in a pinch. We're unlikely to do more than a couple of thousand miles a year in the spare car, it's just to fill a gap when the Land-Rover needs work, the Octavia is in for service or either of them would be unsuitable for the task in hand. I've just done the best part of 900 miles over the last five days, in the Land-Rover, which was fine because I needed its load lugging abilities, but if I'd not then something more comfortable and with a bit more go would have been better. It'd also allow me to take the Land-Rover off the road for a bit for some much needed tlc.
I'll try and get to look at the Saab tomorrow. I hear the comments about the four-cylinder cars having more go, but I like the idea of a bit of six-pot wafting about. If it's a lemon, then I'll have a rethink and see what else I can find.
As far as Rover 75s go, I don't dislike them, but Sarah isn't keen.
|
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,362
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 11:28:06 GMT
|
Well, the Saab was sold when I called this morning, so the hunt continues. As you seem to have a preference for Mercedes, I might just have the perfect car for you if you can wait about 3 weeks and if your £2k max budget would just extend a little bit for the right car if it happened to have everything done and ready to go (ie new discs and pads and quality tyres all round, fresh MOT, full and thorough service...) PM me if you'd like to know more. All the best with your search either way. Mike I've PM'd you Mike. |
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,922
Club RR Member Number: 40
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 12:12:01 GMT
|
|
I'd suggest anything from Honda as they go forever, but watch out for the CO2 based car tax hike 02 plate on I think, the economics of second car's are tax and insurance before mpg.
Accord / CRV with the petrol lump go well.
|
| |
|
|
paul99
Part of things
Posts: 417
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 12:36:33 GMT
|
|
|
| |
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,362
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 12:38:14 GMT
|
I'd suggest anything from Honda as they go forever, but watch out for the CO2 based car tax hike 02 plate on I think, the economics of second car's are tax and insurance before mpg. Accord / CRV with the petrol lump go well. Agreed about the tax/insurance before economy. The cutoff for the cheaper tax on big-ish petrols is registered before 1/3/2001. Don't think a Honda would pass the Sarah selection process, but I'll bear it in mind if something pops up cheap and local. 😃 |
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 12:57:08 GMT
|
|
tax isn't a concern, its but a few pence a day, whereas if your car guzzles a gallon a day rather than half a gallon, that small difference in tax will soon be eaten up.
|
| |
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,362
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 13:20:53 GMT
|
tax isn't a concern, its but a few pence a day, whereas if your car guzzles a gallon a day rather than half a gallon, that small difference in tax will soon be eaten up. Some big, cheap luxo-barges cost £535 a year to tax if they're registered after the end of March '01 and the same model only £245 a year if registered before. At £5+ a gallon, and 20 mpg, that £290 difference buys 1,150 miles worth of fuel. I may not actually do many more miles a year in it than that, and if I'm going to be spending the money on a second car, I'd sooner it went on fuel I'd used rather than tax I'd spend whether the car moved or not. The trade-off, of course, is that cars in the highest tax bracket are nearly all cheaper than those in the lower. Problem is, my budget is low enough that five years (potentially) of ownership could cost me nearly £1,500 more in tax if I buy unwisely and a higher tax car just won't save me that in its purchase price. The highest I'm prepared to go tax wise is the £305 a year 201-225 tax band that the petrol C200/220/240 petrol Merc estates fit into. Either that, or it's got to be pre 31/3/01. |
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19, 2017 13:25:39 GMT
|
heh, when you put it that way, maybe! I don't consider 90's cars old really, I've never owned anything newer than 97, though at the time it was only 6 years old it was still a £600 part ex fiat and I gradually bought old-er cars  |
| |
|
|
|
|
