Ryannn
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Jun 15, 2017 21:41:37 GMT
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One for the MOT testers out there.
I have a 1994 Mini with a Carb. Each year at the MOT there is healthy discussion about it not having a cat, I know it had one originally, but it doesn't now.
Anyway, it can't pass an emissions test for a 1994 car but I don't think a cat would make that much difference on a Carb car surely?
In the MOT guidelines, there is mention of "exempt" cars which were manufactured between 1992 and 1995 but are exempt from a cat based test. Does anyone have this list? Interested to know whether it covers cars like mine where the skin flint owners didn't shell out for fuel injection.
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Jun 15, 2017 22:26:09 GMT
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scimjim
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MOT emissions testsscimjim
@scimjim
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If it's in the vehicle database as needing a cat test, that's what it should get (However, if the tester knows it had a cat as standard but doesn't now, that's an automatic RFR.). If it's not in the database it gets a non-cat test. Exemptions are quadricycles and electric/combustion engine (Hybrid) vehicles, Two stroke engines unless they are subject to the catalyst test and any engine with proof from the manufacturer of original limits (some imports or specialised engines). And yes, a working cat will make quite a difference - that's why you remove it between MOTs
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Last Edit: Jun 18, 2017 19:36:57 GMT by scimjim
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Jun 16, 2017 15:52:25 GMT
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There isn't a list as such. Between the years the OP states some cars were incapable of meeting new emissions standards, and the Ministry as it was then exempted certain affected models by agreement with each manufacturer. For example, Nissan Primeras up to chassis number 380000 are exempt.
Each manufacturer with such a model was issued a technical bulletin back then confirming for testers the exemption, which at the time made it essential for those with affected models to get them MOTd at the appropriate dealer as they would be aware of the exemption. Today its electronic by reg or VIN and once entered the machine instructs the testers which emissions test is required. If the machine says your little mini should have a cat, then a conscientious tester will fail it.
Cats can make a fair bit of difference, easily many times the difference between a pass and a fail
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Ryannn
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Jun 16, 2017 16:38:19 GMT
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Happy to refit one if it will genuinely make a difference. I'll keep it in mind!
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ChasR
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MOT emissions testsChasR
@chasr
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Jun 18, 2017 16:49:54 GMT
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A flow chart should be built for this.
For your Mini assuming it's a UK car it goes as follows:
1) If the engine is original to the car then it is test the car as it came from the factory, irrespective of the fuelling system changing.
2) If the engine came from another car then it is tested to the date of the engine ; If your Mini engine is a pre-75 engine then it will just be a basic smoke test or for pre-92 it will be an emissions test of 1200ppm and 3.5%. However, you need to prove the age of the engine to the tester.
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insig
Part of things
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Jun 18, 2017 18:30:37 GMT
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The database of emissions on the MOT emissions tester is from the book - www.gov.uk/government/publications/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehiclesNote the serial number cut offs. The Rover Mini has the following listed: Mini Model Code XN 1.3l Auto TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059845 onwards 0.75 775 975 0.3 200 0.95 1.09 2500 3000 70 1.3l Manual TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059822 onwards 0.75 775 975 0.3 200 0.95 1.09 2500 3000 70 1.3l TBi Engine Code Y Serial No 060488 onwards 0.75 775 975 0.3 200 0.95 1.09 2500 3000 70 1.3l MPi Engine Code Z 0.5 775 975 0.3 200 0.95 1.09 2500 3000 70 The MOT tester should follow closely all the prompts that are given when entering the vehicle details for the emissions test, which should ensure that a non cat test is carried out if the car qualifies for one. A missing factory fitted cat is not a reason for refusal if the car qualifies for a non cat test.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:24:25 GMT
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On a completely unrelated car my two Carltons had cats fitted from new (since removed) but the computer takes the tester through some steps and does a cat test then a non cat test every year, they pass every time.
I don't know why that is, I assumed that for some years it was just benefit of the doubt about whether the engine was built before cats were mandatory.
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ChasR
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MOT emissions testsChasR
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Jun 20, 2017 18:23:46 GMT
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Maybe your tester is friendly . What year was the car built? I've had some right strange ones. My 1991 Porsche 944 Turbo was meant to have a cat. It basically had a straight bit of exhaust from the Turbo back loosely speaking. Despite being chipped and smelling rich it managed to always pass the emissions. Technically my '89 S2 should have had one but the very early cars didn't. Again, passed the emissions without a hitch. Even my Stag with a 4 barrel Holley and my MGB with twin SUs passed the test with flying colours and ran fine. My 1990 MX-5 however with a decat was hopeless. It never got under the 3.5% CO and 1200ppm threshold despite my MGB being able to. I wonder why to this day. The only things I can think of it being were either the CTS being borked but the ECU seemed happy there. The only other thing I can think of is that the ignition timing was too advanced, which was a mod done by many people. That said the emissions on that car did start to suddenly get worse over the years.
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Ryannn
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Jun 21, 2017 16:22:23 GMT
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I know mine would pass the 3.5 test, I've had it set up to do that, I just need to get it into the test haha.
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ChasR
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MOT emissions testsChasR
@chasr
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I know mine would pass the 3.5 test, I've had it set up to do that, I just need to get it into the test haha. If that's the case and your car came with injection as per the DVLA leaflet above you stand no chance*. *unless you find another way (cough) .
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Ryannn
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Jun 24, 2017 14:24:19 GMT
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I know mine would pass the 3.5 test, I've had it set up to do that, I just need to get it into the test haha. If that's the case and your car came with injection as per the DVLA leaflet above you stand no chance*. Nah, it's a 1994 Carb, that's why I was hoping it would fall into some grey area!
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Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 14:25:02 GMT by Ryannn
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ChasR
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MOT emissions testsChasR
@chasr
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Jun 25, 2017 12:33:39 GMT
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I'd be tempted to call up British Motor Heritage. In the manual it states it is one way to get the figures that you desire. The manual does not mention a carb'd Mini in the list.
But a Cat would bring down the figures. Remember that the Yanks had cats on cars for years long before us. My Carina with a twin choke carb even has a choke on it!
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insig
Part of things
Posts: 32
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If that's the case and your car came with injection as per the DVLA leaflet above you stand no chance*. Nah, it's a 1994 Carb, that's why I was hoping it would fall into some grey area! I cant see what the problem is here, the answer has been given, by looking at the flow charts in the testers manual and the data in he emissions book, the car will undergo the BET (basic emissions test with cat limits), fail that, there will be no match in the emissions book for the engine so it'll get a test with 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC. No grey area, no fiddle and done by the book.
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Ryannn
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Jun 26, 2017 17:59:10 GMT
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Nah, it's a 1994 Carb, that's why I was hoping it would fall into some grey area! I cant see what the problem is here, the answer has been given, by looking at the flow charts in the testers manual and the data in he emissions book, the car will undergo the BET (basic emissions test with cat limits), fail that, there will be no match in the emissions book for the engine so it'll get a test with 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC. No grey area, no fiddle and done by the book. I was asking which cars fall into the exclusion list detailed in the testers guide as I couldn't believe that my Carb car could pass the same test as an injection one, even with a cat. The posts above indicate that it should though.
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Last Edit: Jun 26, 2017 17:59:40 GMT by Ryannn
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ChasR
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MOT emissions testsChasR
@chasr
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Jun 26, 2017 19:04:20 GMT
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TBH it sounds like your tester is a funny one. To be fair, as much as I like the garage I go to even he is a little funny on some things. I recall mk2cossie saying a while ago that refresher courses aren't taught as well these days since they are essentially presentations sent to the tester as opposed to being a discussion like many years ago with testers physically facing each other.
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