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Rear door hinges on the bedford are quite sloppy. Couldnt quite see what was going on so I took one apart.
After a couple of hours drilling/smashing out 3 pieces if broken roll pin I now need to sort out something to replace them.
They seem to be just under 8mm on the static part and a bit over 8mm on the moving part.
So, what do I need to do?
The slightly larger worn hole is also tapered.
I think I have 2 main options. There are 21/64" solid pins available for morris minors.
I could drill out and fit these but I'm unsure how they fit. Do you drill both parts the same size and the knurled section does all the securing?
Or, I can fit roll pins again.
Id rather do this, but same question. Are both hinge halfs drilled to the same size? I would guess the moving part needs to be a touch larger or it wont move.
I can find plenty of 8mm roll pins, I assume there is nothing special about door hinge roll pins? The originals didn't look special.
What is the 8mm measurement? Ideal hole size? Diameter if pin at rest?
If I clean all the holes out to 8.1mm will an 8mm roll pin still fit?
Stainless pins or not?
I also found some 8.1mm roll pin type hinge pins fir vauxhalls on ebay. Id need to cut them down but again, is 8.1mm the hole size needed or the size of the pin?
A simple subject seems to have got all complicated!
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Can you post a pic up of what you are looking at buddy? Reading that made my brain bleed and I'm thick as mince. Pictures work better.
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This is the hinge.  Had a roll pin rather than a solid pin. the hole in the arm section is a little worn and a smidge over 8mm. Holes in the other part of the hinge are a smidge under 8mm. Just trying to work out what pin to replace with and what size I should make the holes. I think ive found out an 8mm roll pin is good for holes 8mm-8.3mm. I think Carbon steel rather than stainless. What I'm unsure about is if the hole in the arm needs to be slightly larger than the holes in the other part of the hinge to stop it all just locking solid when the new pin is driven in. |
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Ahhh slotted pin through the lot. A solid pin would suffice too. But yes, one set of holes needs to be larger than the other, doesn't matter which way around you do it usually.
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Last Edit: Apr 3, 2017 20:02:08 GMT by fad
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Ahhh slotted pin through the lot. A solid pin would suffice too. But yes, one set of holes needs to be larger than the other, doesn't matter which way around you do it usually. Is there a normal amount of difference between the holes? Or is it not that big a deal? I'm sure whatever I do will be better than the worn broken sloppyness it was before. |
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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I guess you are going for interference fit on the outers, and close fit on the inners..? I dunno my experience of this type of hinge is limited... I would be tempted to go with a solid pin that is an interference fit on the outers possibly with a slightly mushroomed head and then stick it in a drill chuck and spin it up and take a little material off the middle with some wet n dry, and ream the holes of the centre part of the hinge. You seem to know what you gotta do to make it work though  You're doing what I would do. I wouldn't worry about the middle hole too much... And if there's any play that bothers you, you could just mount the hinges very very slightly cock eyed to take up the play... No one would know except me and you  LOL |
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Yeah, there is loads of 'cock eyed' ability.
I had already used all the ability to get the door gaps right.
Should gain some of that adjustability back when there is less play in the hinge.
Thanks.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,733
Club RR Member Number: 34
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roll pins/hinge pins Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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That type of hinge doesn't usually have a roll pin in my experience. It should have something more like this- goo.gl/images/PWZijLThere's a number of reasons for that, one it stops as much water/dirt getting in from the top, two it's knurled to stop it rotating, and three it's actually round so it doesn't cut its way into the hinge like a roll pin will. Finding one the right diameter and length might be a bit of an issue though. Model A ford is the most obvious and they come in a range of diameters. If not there's no reason you couldn't make some though., easy to machine a long shanked bolt then strike some knurling into it with a chisel. |
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Last Edit: Apr 3, 2017 20:24:23 GMT by Dez
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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If it's wrong, then tell 'em Dave made you do it.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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That type of hinge doesn't usually have a roll pin in my experience. It should have something more like this- goo.gl/images/PWZijLThere's a number of reasons for that, one it stops as much water/dirt getting in from the top, two it's knurled to stop it rotating, and three it's actually round so it doesn't cut its way into the hinge like a roll pin will. Finding one the right diameter and length might be a bit of an issue though. Model A ford is the most obvious and they corn in a range of diameters. If not there's no reason you couldn't make some though., easy to machine a long shanked bolt then strike some knurling into it with a chisel. A solid pin with a mushroomed head!  Don't wanna say "Told ya so..." but... :lol: |
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That type of hinge doesn't usually have a roll pin in my experience. It should have something more like this- goo.gl/images/PWZijLThere's a number of reasons for that, one it stops as much water/dirt getting in from the top, two it's knurled to stop it rotating, and three it's actually round so it doesn't cut its way into the hinge like a roll pin will. Finding one the right diameter and length might be a bit of an issue though. Model A ford is the most obvious and they come in a range of diameters. If not there's no reason you couldn't make some though., easy to machine a long shanked bolt then strike some knurling into it with a chisel. I did see that type, didnt want to use them as they don't look stock. The morris minor ones I found have a knurled section but sit flush so would look ok. I don't know why Bedford chose to use roll pins, but they didnt last long (50k of mainly motorway use id guess). If I use roll pins again ill make sure the weight of the door pulls the hinge onto the solid area rather than the slit. I wouldnt have even considered that wear issue, thanks. |
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That type of hinge doesn't usually have a roll pin in my experience. It should have something more like this- goo.gl/images/PWZijLThere's a number of reasons for that, one it stops as much water/dirt getting in from the top, two it's knurled to stop it rotating, and three it's actually round so it doesn't cut its way into the hinge like a roll pin will. Finding one the right diameter and length might be a bit of an issue though. Model A ford is the most obvious and they corn in a range of diameters. If not there's no reason you couldn't make some though., easy to machine a long shanked bolt then strike some knurling into it with a chisel. A solid pin with a mushroomed head! Don't wanna say "Told ya so..." but... :lol: As mentioned, that pin may be better but its not what bedford fitted. For some reason I really cant explain this is one detail id rather looked like its not been messed with. |
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These are the morris ones  |
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,733
Club RR Member Number: 34
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roll pins/hinge pins Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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I'd be pretty dubious of the roll pins being stock fitment, they're just the wrong item for the job. But then Bedford didn't get where they are today by doing things properly....
The Morris type pin is far more likely, just takes a bit more finesse to get them sitting right than with headed ones.
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Ive seen NOS hinges, the roll pins are stock.
It doesnt surprise me, the CF is a mix of brilliance and stupidity.
Seems there not the only company to use them, vauxhall still do and the same type was used on renault 5. Probably loads more too.
I think, as I could really do with refitting this hinge asap (taking this apart was exploratory), ill buy some roll pins from halfords. If I don't like the results ill order the morris ones before I do the rest as they all want doing really.
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Nissan were still using roll pins 5 years ago.
Either way I'd be fitting a knurled clevis pin and a split pin for ease of replacement in the future.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Nissan where still using roll pins 5 years ago. Either way I'd be fitting a knitted clevis pin and a split pin for ease of replacement in the future. That sounds like something that should be knitted by Nannas at the day centre of a Sunday... |
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Hi, Roll pins are used on drivers and passenger side doors on cars where the use of concealed hinges protects them directly from the weather. On the back of vans exposed to the rain and the dirt dragged up onto the back is not an ideal place for them to be. So a solid pin would be better, horses for courses.
Colin
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Last Edit: Apr 3, 2017 23:20:56 GMT by colnerov
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Just to put a finish to this, ive fitted roll pins.
I cleaned up the hole in the static half to 8mm and left the slightly larger than 8mm in the moving arm.
They are now spot on.
If they show any signs of wearing I still have room to drill out and fit the 21/64 solid Morris minor pins.
I also found the remains of a plastic sealing plug in the end of one pin so ill make some new ones.
Didnt know it had these (makes sense though) as hinges are fitted pre paint in the factory and the plugs fitted after paint so NOS hinges have no sealing plugs.
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You're doing what I would do. I wouldn't worry about the middle hole too much... And if there's any play that bothers you, you could just mount the hinges very very slightly cock eyed to take up the play... No one would know except me and you 
LOL 
