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Mar 26, 2017 17:18:14 GMT
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So we've all been here. It's Sunday PM and I am covered in oil with absolutely zero progress on my project this month.
Every time I touch it I find new dramas, bodged jobs by previous owners and new reasons to burn money.
Paid a grand on eBay, shouldnt have taken it home because it was worse than described but a) hate timewasters b) was already in Wales. Limped it home discovering faults all the way.
It now probably owes me £1500, discovered today that electrics and fuelling system are shagged too. I bought to eventually do an engine swap because my other one is mint and didnt want to ruin it, figured I'd get it running straight then look at powerplant options.
In your opinion do motors like this leave you pushing water uphill until you eventually set fire to it or will the faults plateau if I keep giving it TLC?
1988 mk2 Golf GTI 8v in a terrible rattlecan blue finish (that didn't look that terrible on eBay).
What is your experience? Keep pushing and really achieve something or buy a shell for fraction of the dough and build from scratch?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:20:35 GMT
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Oh it would appear I have two usernames on this email address!
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if this van's a rocking... then my starter motor is probably fecked again
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Stick it out or sack it offRob M
@zeb
Club Retro Rides Member 41
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Mar 26, 2017 18:02:22 GMT
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Put it back on ebay 'spares or repairs, give an honest appraisal then take the money and run.
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Mar 26, 2017 18:38:07 GMT
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Is the shell ok?
If it needs any welding, get rid. If its good, strip off everything you don't need and do the conversion. The shell is the only important bit in the grand scheme.
If you fancy it going 1.8t, my vrs will be for sale soon for about £600 and tbh the only good thing about it is the engine lol.
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Mar 26, 2017 18:50:47 GMT
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Is the shell ok? If it needs any welding, get rid. If its good, strip off everything you don't need and do the conversion. The shell is the only important bit in the grand scheme. If you fancy it going 1.8t, my vrs will be for sale soon for about £600 and tbh the only good thing about it is the engine lol. The shell seems fine but worried what a very cheap and hurried paint job/lots of thick black underseal by an 8 year old is hiding! What year is the VRS and is it MOT'd so I could run it whilst stripping the golf? Also considered spares/repairs route but i couldn't imagine seeing more than 500?
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Mar 26, 2017 19:00:00 GMT
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Underseal would worry me with a poor paint job.
I suppose plan f would be get a good bare shell use your car as a donor and get a engine donor.
It's motd until June, cant see it passing a mot without spending some money on it. Oh and it's a 2003 03 estate.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 26, 2017 19:48:12 GMT
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I have a VRS estate too. LOVE it.
It comes down to the labour of love. My Volksrod I am so far into it now ots just not funny. I know how you feel about unpicking bodges...
don't think about the money. Think of it like this: It's a hobby. Some folk watch football, some smoke, some drink, some watch trains go past. Does working on it make you happy? Do you enjoy learning new skills? Are you content to fettle on? Do you need it as a daily?
In your shoes, provided I had wheels, I would strip the curse word to her very bare bones, get some white spirit on that underseal, and see what you have. If she's dead, you have a pile of spares to sell. If she aint, then you have done a twatload of legwork already.
FWIW my next project is to build a 20vT motor up aiming for 300bhp and throwing it into the Skoda, and then using the Skodas current engine (after rebuild) in a Golf Synchro belonging to my mate. I want a battered shed of a screamer and so long as I don't detonate the engine, when the skoda rots around the engine, the engine will be going in something else.
My Volksrod I mentioned needed one patch of welding the size of 50p for the MOT. So I started digging...
6 months later she has had: New pans New framehead New naps hat New framehead bottom plate Half (fromt end) a new centre tunnel closing plate New channel bottom plates New channel closing plates New rear wheel arches Various localised repairs along the heater channels
Used about 2km of welding wire, 40 slitting discs, about 8kg welding gas, lost about 3 pints of blood and am still a long way off finishing. All in I have about 10k in this car... But I tell you something, it's a whole load more fun than football, nights out, smoking or whatever else folk soend their cash on (though I DO miss shagging random girls and then worrying about the clap every weekend... LOL)
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Last Edit: Mar 26, 2017 19:49:29 GMT by fad
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,106
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Stick it out or sack it offvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Mar 26, 2017 21:17:14 GMT
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The "what have I done?" stage of the project. Never fun.
Rather than worrying about the things that are broken, re-assess the project in terms of the good parts. What works, what doesn't need work, what can be repaired by spending little or no money? This should help give you some positive balance to the frustration of your current negatives.
Could you replace what you've got with something of equivalent or better condition for what you'd get selling the project as it stands? It may be more cost effective to see it through at this point than to take a gamble on another car.
Functionality seems more important than cosmetics, so you can ignore the bad paint and any interior problems for now. The heavy undersealing ought to be investigated but that is a big, messy, horrible job so perhaps best not tackled while you're experience some mid-built doubts and are in need of a boost. If you know the usual structural trouble spots, give those areas a poke so you can at least be assured of the car's condition in those areas.
Take a break. Sometimes when you're neck-deep in car problems it can be overwhelming, even for the experienced builder, and a break is a good way to get a fresh perspective and a boost. It can also help you decide to move the project on without guilt about the what-ifs and money invested. There's no shame in stopping if a project isn't working out for whatever reason, even though it can be a difficult decision to make.
If you're able to fix the problems you've identified, don't worry about how long it will take or how much it will cost unless that directly affects whether or not you keep it. If the project needs to be done to a certain budget and timescale and you can't see that happening, then it's time to move it on. If it's more open-ended, keep it and plug away until it's done.
Finally, how easily could you find another Mk2 Golf GTI 8v? Sometimes, you just have to work with what you've got, no matter how annoying it is and sometimes, there's plenty more fish in the sea.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Stick it out or sack it offChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Mar 27, 2017 15:49:36 GMT
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Personally? I'd sack it off.
I know this is questionable on the Modus Operandai but I have been there before with around 3 cars and one of them I didn't really know when to stop. OK it had a gearbox conversion to complicate matters but I threw alot of cash into the car, something I believe the next owner did too (IMHO he put in another £3k into my Stag after I sold it), and he's a serial tinkerer.
For those wondering the cars in question include my:
-First MG Midget -Triumph Stag -Escort RS Turbo ; it was very clean but there were alot of issues which did not stop at all over the years.
If it is as bodged as you say it's hard to know when you will stop.
Yes you are doing an engine swap but you'll still need the donor loom and I am guessing clocks etc.
This next bit is a little controversial. Remember that while you don't want to be seen as a timewaster sellers can be timewasters too. I know people like to put cars in a good light but being generous with the truth never helps anyone.
But I will admit something. I used to love working on cars, but the above have got me a little tired ; I bought the cars to drive, not think "will I get there" or "what will I fix this weekend"?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:43:36 GMT
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Personally I think the faults will eventually plateau, of course by then you may well have replaced absolutely everything. However, if you bought it to use the shell, then just start carving into it, strip off everything you don't want and sell it and build the car you planned to build. However if the shell is burgered then bung it back on fleabay spares or repairs, and go and track yourself down a better shell to build from. I'm guessing that mk 2 Golfs are still fairly easy to come by?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:49:51 GMT
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Stand back, well back. Squint until your eyes go all watery and everything's blurry, then try to imagine it all done in your minds eye, if you can't see it sitting there finished in your minds eye, put some goggles on and cut the thing up keeping the bits you need. If your hearts not in it you'll never be happy with it.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:27:45 GMT
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Just to add, if the shell is kaput there is plan x (this is my plan c maybe d? (I have more plans than money or skill lol) if my mk2 has any shell issues)
Pop on the euro interwebs and find a clean mk2 jetta coupe shell & use your current mk2 as a LHD to RHD donor, Jetta coupe's in the UK fetch silly money & I have never seen a RHD converted one.
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Last Edit: Mar 27, 2017 17:32:46 GMT by joem83
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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We all make mistakes. That's the first real gti I've seen that looks like a looky likey gti! Salvage some losses out of it and move it on, it's had a bad life and you shouldn't pay for that so stop spending on it. If it was in a tired state but hadn't been messed about with and in original condition then at least you could see whats needed, this is just a wage rinsing bomb waiting to go off. Have a mind reset, throw some money at your proper motor to make up for the sadness and put the episode down to experience.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Just to add, if the shell is kaput there is plan x (this is my plan c maybe d? (I have more plans than money or skill lol) if my mk2 has any shell issues) Pop on the euro interwebs and find a clean mk2 jetta coupe shell & use your current mk2 as a LHD to RHD donor, Jetta coupe's in the UK fetch silly money & I have never seen a RHD converted one. I've been considering this myself, have a fella who lives in euroland scouting a 2 door for me, we had one possible one a while back but the owner pulled out of the sale, tad gutted because it was even the same colour as my current mk2. Ahh well, but yeah I'd say stick it out. As others say, its a hobby. The more difficult it is the more you have to do. I personally get bored of things when they are easy and prefer a challenge, alright it's annoying and soul destroying when something is completely rotten but there's always a way out.
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Mar 29, 2017 18:28:38 GMT
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Incredibly insightful answers folks thank you
Annoyingly/ironically my last proper VW was a 2dr Jetta!
I squinted my eyes and theres a finished beast in there somewhere. This weekend I will dispassionately prod all the usual trouble spots with a screwdriver and dare to look at the wiring.
I'll report back ASAP thanks again for taking the time to talk me off the ledge (in both directions!)
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if this van's a rocking... then my starter motor is probably fecked again
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Mar 29, 2017 19:22:16 GMT
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The way I see it, its not about making sense.
If it was, we'd be driving bone stock econo boxes and we'd never touch them.
So usually once you've replaced repaired and modified them enough, you'll have what you want.
Usually..
I've had 2 cars where that did not work out ( probably more than 2, but those stick out )
One was a ultra rare Alfa Romeo F12 van.
Which was a crappy design to begin with ( some cars deserve to be rare...), and I just ran out of time and money before I got it sorted.
The other was a modified Fiat 600 that kept breaking parts, no matter how new many ones I threw at it. ( It broke new parts, old parts, parts I'd just replaced. I called it the Italian Christine...)
Both of those I got rid off too late...
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Mar 29, 2017 19:47:29 GMT
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I think those of us that have been twatting about with cars for longer than we like to admit have all been in this position. At this stage I would get a mate who knows these to look it over without you being present and make a list of things bad and good, as it is difficult to be dispassionate when you can see the pound notes siiting in the form of a car that as you have already stated isn't worth anything near what you paid.
Just looking at that one picture there's all sorts of wrongness visible. Selling as a snotter won't raise as much as breaking it.
Have a good look at it and list identified jobs then walk indoors and rough out costs and time, then make a hard headed decision, good luck.
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Last Edit: Mar 29, 2017 19:48:39 GMT by duggers
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Mar 29, 2017 21:57:21 GMT
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I generally find myself spending too much money fixing the car I have instead of buying another one on the theory that any other car I can afford to buy will come with a list of problems I don't yet know about while I know most of the things that need attention on the one I have.
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Buying another car is fine if you want a project and have some time, extra cash to lob at it and are not in it for £££=profit. If you are going to knowingly make a loss the best way is to minimise that loss and get an original, unbarried motor and not one where the previous owner thought their mates were mechanics at weekends. Cars that have been totally painted in some random colour suggest it has been bouncing off of stuff and the PO being unable to afford another car, got their mate who works in a ropey body shop to give it a lob up and blow over with whatever colour was laying around, for a drink. Given the mechanical state of it also suggests that below the bare minimum has been spent on it. These cars were prone to being nicked too so check for damages, it may have spent a few nights of it's life having the ripped out of it. If it's a ' I've got it now so may as well make the most of it' situation then as said, tell someone to go and tear it apart with a pen and paper, go strip out the interior panels and see what has gone on behind the scenes, do stuff that costs NOTHING. If I was GIVEN it then yeah, it would be worth my while messing about and assessing it to see if it's worth keeping but as it already owes you considerably far more than it's worth and it is obvious that that's not going to stop anytime soon, to me that's the game changer. Here's a story from someone who bought and still has a lemon, although it's more 'lemonade' now... I'm all up for saving a wreck and ruining the savings stash, I generally feel 'sorry' for lumps of metal that have been abused and neglected and I'm fuelled by the thought of 'making them great again' but I'd like to think that by now and after some 'enlightening' experiences that my days of dragging a dog home are done, my BM put the lid on that old caper when I pulled 1990's bubble wrap and newspaper out of the old sills. I got it cheap and dragged it off of someones weed infested driveway. I have a file with invoices for nearly 10 grand I've chucked at it and that's without the months of pain and misery of undoing all the curse word others had done to it over 30 years and I'm still not done and it still doesn't thank me for it and what's it worth right now? 4G's with a ticket at a push? I've estimated with some quotes that it's going to cost me another 10 grand to get it minty... inside and out. Twice I've wanted to set fire to it and twice I've wanted to sell it, once I was just going to walk away from it. The things that have kept me going is the HOPE that these cars realise their whole value over parts, and that has only just begun to happen... and after 6 years of owning it! (It's taken about 15 years on the whole as the 3.0CSi was dominating the market, the CSL is another story...) It gets comments, photos taken and even camera phone filmed most days (especially up t'north), it wasn't a parts doner and wasn't mucked about by having Halfords quality goods screwed to it and deep down I love the dirty slut. In hindsight (a wonderful thing) I had already bought it when having 'that' conversation down the cafe with the then owner. I should have not bought it, not even put on my rose tints and looked at it (in the dark and the rain) and I should have saved for the best I could afford but on the other hand sometimes these things end up with us for a reason, I can safely say that hadn't I bought it, then it wouldn't be around any more as it was living on a life of a lack of knowledge, low budget, bent MOT's and apparently Tax free for many years... ANPR would have soon swallowed it up if it didn't rot itself to death first. Maybe you see some of that that in these Golfs? If so... PREPARE FOR BATTLE! I hope the worst of it is just cosmetic bad taste and bad spannering. Good luck!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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You really cannot factor return into what you put into these cars though... That's a fool's game.
I dunno if you said already, but what is the overall "finished" you are aiming for..? A stock looking 20vT powered Golf? Or a nail of a street sleeper? Or a stripped out track slut?
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