Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 11, 2017 21:55:41 GMT
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I always run older cars and the main issues I find with them are always related to poor previous work. This Range Rover is no exception as I shall exlain in: Day 2I got up early this morning to make a start. Todays targets were: Replace the battery Service the bonnet catches Fit the fan shroud that was in the boot! Investigate the apparent oil leak. As it was a bit early to inadvertently set off the alarm system I left the battery until later and set to removing the grill and slam panel to get at the bonnet catches. It all came apart easily enough though there was a mismatch of screws and a bolt had had its head sheered off in the recent past, probably whilst replacing the radiator.  Both latches came out without a fight and the reason for the stubbornness to operate turned out to be broken cable outers resulting in lost motion. I also found that the drivers side catch has a broken micro-switch mounting which is effecting the security system. Replacements are on there way from eBay (secondhand but good) for £22.50.  The fan shroud cannot be fitted without removing either the fan or the radiator. As the newly fitted radiator was actually loose(!) and I don't have the correct tool for removing the viscous fan it was the radiator that I concentrated on. To get it out I had to removed the inter-cooler (easy) and un-ship the aircon rad. Handily the metal posts that all this lot attaches to were also loose due to missing bolts! The radiator turned out to be loose because neither of the two bottom securing bolts had been fitted. Probably because the rusty remains of the old ones were still firmly stuck in place attached to the broken off plastic lugs of the previous radiator. The new radiator wasn't quite the correct one as it has unused connections at its base for the built in oil cooler. It also had no anti-freeze in it!  The source of the oil leak also became very apparent, when monkey boy did such a good job of replacing the radiator he also skillfully cross-threaded one of the oil-cooler connections!   Now all of this could afflict any vehicle so is not another 'P38 problem', you'll find the aftermath of chimps handywork on any vehicle over a certain age. I shall see if I can recover the thread with a die but it is pretty mullered.  I gave the area a good clean which was pretty satisfying and undid some strange re-wiring of the air-con fans which fortunately hadn't involved any cable cutting so was easy to revert back to standard.    I started cleaning the front of the engine too which is when I noticed how knackered the auxiliary belt was looking. I had one of these go on my old BMW 525TDS Tourer (same engine) so I now have a new one ready to fit (£29). I also discovered why the turbo whistled so much. As suspected there was a leak in the induction pipe just upstream of the turbo inlet where the crankcase breather plumbs in, or fell out in this case.  The battery replacement went smoothly and has made a noticeable difference with the vehicle seeming to be a lot more alert and responsive now. I have still had to get a replacement battery clamp though (£12).  So a busy productive day of discovery and improvement (and expense) but none of it can be directed at the P38, it's all stuff that all old vehicles will suffer from. If I get any time on it tomorrow it will be spent fitting the new belt, cleaning and positioning the fan shroud and then rebuilding the front as far as I can until the oil cooler is either repaired or replaced. Tune in tomorrow for more fun and frolics! Smiler. |
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Last Edit: Mar 11, 2017 21:58:50 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 11, 2017 21:58:16 GMT
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Beautiful cars, I had a 4 litre petrol, they are so comfortable and classy. You will probably love and hate it from day to day, but they are worth the grief. So I presume the Escort is all sorted now? The Escort still needs finishing but I'll let her new owner do that to put there stamp on it. I've gone as far as I want to with it, it's going on ebay at the end of the month. |
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Mar 11, 2017 22:16:18 GMT
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These are some words of wisdom that a friend of mine who owns an independant Land Rover service and repair centre once told me: *sensible advice on P38 Range Rovers etc I've been saying similar for quite a while now. Nice to see more positive posting about them. |
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Mar 11, 2017 23:32:47 GMT
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Nice work so far! 22 quid for a piece of bent channel? Bloody hell! Whilst I agree with the points made, I think another issue they suffer from are the "Specialists" themselves. In my experience they range from excellent - very few - to complete muppets. Now, if the self-same muppet sets himself up as a Lego brick cleaning specialist, then probably not much harm or foul, but when he does so proclaiming to understand the maintenance needs of what was, for its time, perceived as a fairly complex bit of kit, then we can throw terminal incompetence into the mix as well. A quick trawl through the posts on any RR forum will soon give a flavour of the "advice" these guys are dishing out. How many engines have been diagnosed as "that'll be a slipped liner, Sir" when a new set of lifters was needed? How many EAS systems ditched for coils, when some new o-rings in the valve block would have done it? The list goes on. So a punter likes the look and buys one, everyone tells him he's mad, "I had a mate" etc. Then maybe gets locked out (and doesn't know, or know about the EKA Code-so it's a faff), has a bit of a tappy noise leading to his engine being condemned by his 'specialist' and his suspension drops on one corner because his o-rings are twenty years old? Perhaps it runs a bit rough and his 'specialist' recommends a couple of hundred quids worth of new MAF, when a quick clean of a couple of sensors and a set of leads would have done the same thing. Pretty soon he's fed up and flogs the vehicle cheap, hopefully to someone who does understand them. And the nett result? What do we get? A guy who goes down the pub and generally berates the vehicles as curse word which is, of course, a great bandwagon to jump on, "I had a mate" etc. So now we have ten people saying the vehicles is curse word, and so on. In reality, a little knowledge and time, would have given him a fully functioning vehicle, but he and his specialist have neither, so it's the vehicles fault. The myth is perpetuated and, if we say it enough, it must become the truth. How many times on here have I read about stuff like BMW with weak gearboxes, VANOS and nikasil lining issues, Audis eating suspension bits, yet ask Joe Bloggs and he'll tell you, "Your looking at your actual German engineering there, best in the world!" Ask him about a P38 and, "I had a mate..."! Sorry, another rant there!  |
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You are, of course, quite correct.
Though some of these "stories" do have a sound basis in fact.
The ZF 5HP24 is indeed a rather fragile object and breaks in BMWs, RRs, Jags and especially 4WD Audis, not helped by some of the manufacturers not bothering to pass on ZFs recommended 40k oil change interval and claiming that is sealed for (short) life!
Audis do indeed eat suspension components, but rarely mentioned is that most of the the components that get eaten are the cheap and nasty aftermarket ones. The genuine OE ones last pretty well - pity they are so unreasonably priced.....
There is a considerable satisfaction in catching one of these abused vehicles before it is too late and putting them back how they should be. The trick is not getting one that has been in the hands of chimps for too long (with apologies to actual Pan Troglodytes who are much too smart to mistreat old vehicles)
Nick
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Last Edit: Mar 12, 2017 19:31:56 GMT by vitesseefi
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 12, 2017 19:57:27 GMT
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All very valid points that I fully support. I don't think many of these self-proclaimed specialists actually went to 'specialist' school. Day 3Today was an expensive one! Not for the P38, more the wifes revenge! Ended up having to take her out on a shopping spree.  Got back in time to fit the new accessories belt which went without issue and carried out a bit more cleaning to the engine and the near-side inner wing. I always find cleaning the bodywork structure under the bonnet a satisfying exercise, especially on brighter coloured vehicles. It just brightens the whole engine bay and makes everything much easier to see and differentiate. No photos as the light was fading. Work tomorrow, I'm taking the oil cooler in to see if I can find a die to clean up the thread and rescue it. Smiler. |
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Last Edit: Mar 12, 2017 19:57:43 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Mar 12, 2017 21:23:22 GMT
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I think you will struggle to get a decent thread on the metal that is left with a die, I know it sounds a bit 'codge and bodge', but presuming it won't be coming off again, what about screwing it back on cross thread with some good quality thread sealant.
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Mar 12, 2017 22:59:43 GMT
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Get it on veg and enjoy seriously economical motoring. My e39 tds with the same engine loved it. I was so close to getting one but got scared off with horror stories. I have a d3 which is great so can't justify another beast like that. Unless trivia.. The diesel autos have no fogs because the gearbox cooler sits there. Manual diesels have them  |
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Mar 12, 2017 23:10:07 GMT
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I was so close to getting one but got scared off with horror stories. I rest my case yer 'onour.  The earlier base model 4.0L didn't have spots either. They had the same grilles as the diesel, but nothing behind them. Or at least that's how my old '96 ex-GMP was configured. Good luck with the thread. I managed to resuscitate one on my brake modulator, but it was only the top couple of turns a bit burred on that. Yours has had a true professional on it. |
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 13, 2017 21:56:11 GMT
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Day 4Only a brief flurry as it's a school night but I managed to find a suitable die at work and the thread seems to have cleaned up good enough to be re-used. Now I just need to get a couple of O-rings (missing) and I can plumb it back in.  I've also painted the radiator mounting brackets as they were bare metalled in places. I need to find a replacement upper mounting bush and bolt for one of them as this too was missing (spot the trend here?).   So so far the only expense that in any way could be aimed squarely at the fact that it is a P38 is the battery due to the vehicles aparent sensetivity to low voltages but then this was only a problem because he swapped the original for a smaller one. There's still more work to do yet though so lets see how things progress. Regards, Smiler.
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Last Edit: Mar 13, 2017 21:57:48 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 15, 2017 21:20:00 GMT
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Day 5Today saw the front end rebuilt, this time with everything bolted in place. The only bit that is missing is the upper rubber bush for the radiator pack bracket as mentioned above. I have fitted a shorter bolt for now until I can get a replacement part.  I have also had to carry out a temporary repair to the bonnet cables and catches as the set that I had bought from ebay won't get here before the MoT as the seller has just gone on holiday. I ordered a complete filter kit for the engine only to find that the air filter is too small.   Finally, I have ordered and received a new pair of front air-bags/springs (£125) as the originals are looking very tired.  Next on the list is a compressor and valve service kit as then the whole pneumatic system bar the pipes and water extractor will be fresh. Smiler.
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Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 21:20:43 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Mar 15, 2017 21:38:26 GMT
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that looks like an E34 filter not a P38 one.
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Mar 15, 2017 21:45:46 GMT
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actually I just checked and it wont be, but there are at least two different filters for the P38 DSE depending on age
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Mar 15, 2017 22:33:30 GMT
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I like it! I'm getting tempted by them as I realise a classic rangey will never be in my budget
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty
'90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire
'86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018
'97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van
'04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it?
'91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new
'87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser
'03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun...
'15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Mar 15, 2017 23:20:22 GMT
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actually I just checked and it wont be, but there are at least two different filters for the P38 DSE depending on age They were good like this! Little things like suspension height sensors, brake hoses (as I know too well) were changed after 1997 so the earlier vehicles will have differences. I shipped an air filter for mine when I first got it, checked it was the right one, then ordered ten! Smiler nice work on the thread. |
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Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 23:21:29 GMT by georgeb
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Like MercDan, I have always wanted one of these but been too scared to take the plunge. Bookmarked.
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-(
10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily
03 Import Forester STi - Sold
98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-(
99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold
02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX
88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 18, 2017 20:11:06 GMT
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Day 6First of all, I now have the correct air filter fitted. My own mistake, I failed to check the chassis number as it stated to do in the ebay advert. This was followed by a big fun job, changing the front air-springs!  The old ones were very much past their best:   Removal and fitment is actually very simple, so long as you have a tall enough jack! The base is held in the axle plate by a simple steel pin   The eye in the end of the pin is for the retaining bolt.  You'll notice that the old air-springs have a posh alloy base. As a result one of the pins was seized in place due to corrosion. After a brief check on a Range Rover forum I was reminded that it is an older Land Rover product and to stop pussy-footing around and get a bigger hammer. Therefore, one pry bar between base plate and axle and a couple of deft swings with the hammer had the remains of the pin neatly sheared off and the old spring base plate free. The upper plate of the air-spring is retained with two metal clips that slide over two studs.  They are a bit fiddly due to access but with a selection of long pliers and long screw drivers they were done. All that left was the connection of the air pipe. This is a simple push fit compression joint. Push the metal collar in to extract the pipe from the old air-spring and then repeat to push it into the new one.  All this was achieved without removing the wheels or wheel arch liners, one was done in the dark with only a phone torch to see by! After this, and considering that the genuine Dunlop air-springs were only approx £65 each, I am starting to wonder just how much justification there really is for the fear of the air suspension. I have received the compressor and valve block rebuild kit (circa £30) which I shall also fit for piece of mind and see if I can replace the silica-gel in the moister trap and that will be all the mechanical parts of the pneumatic system refreshed. All the air lines are plastic so the only way I can see that they can fail other than by mechanical damage is by heat exposure through a long-term leaking exhaust. 24 hrs later and the vehicle is still sat nice and high and even. Next jobs in preparation for the MoT will be: Adjust handbrake Fit new wipers Fit number plates Along with: Fit the new gearbox oil cooler temp sensor (plugged in to succesfully prove the fault as a faulty sensor) Engine oil & filters Gearbox oil & filter (preferably a full flush if that's DIY-able) Coolant system flush Remove the door cards and service the stiff exterior door handles (repair kits available for fronts at £5 each) Replace failed interior bulbs (Cabin Conditioning display backlight and front interior lights) Repaint satin black door window frames Finish cleaning interior MoT is monday afternoon, but tomorrow I'm being dragged out on domestic duties... Smiler.
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Last Edit: Mar 18, 2017 20:27:05 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 18, 2017 20:43:25 GMT
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Found this in the boot:    Waiting to hear from the Range Rover forum what it is but early suspicion is the big box is a sub and the small electrical box I'm guessing as the alarm system. It has obviously had some work though and is not mounted to anything. Unless of course it's for the carphone. |
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Mar 18, 2017 22:04:05 GMT
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No idea what your floating box is. It's not standard.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Mar 18, 2017 22:42:04 GMT
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Didn't think it was standard, the styling of the case doesn't sit with the rest of the vehicle. I'm guessing it's got something to do with the car phone.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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