vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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I thought for quite a while I was a fan of rat look. Then realised I was only a fan of *some* rat look. Then I noticed there was a part of rat look that picked up a new name; derelict. In many ways, it's more succinct and a better description because the vehicles in question look derelict. It appears to be evolving too as to what it covers. Primarily, it appears to cover big cost gorgeous machines like this, Jonathon Ward's perfect 1948 Buick as featured on Jay Leno's Garage over on Youtube. This is the car that grabbed me with this genre, the one that jumped out and said "whatever it is, this is it". It's the way that at a quick glance, it's just an old beater but a closer look brings to light all sorts of nice details. There's a lot hidden too, practically everything underneath is brand new so it's essentially a new car with an old body while being sympathetic to the strengths of both. The more I looked around, the more I realised that the term 'derelict' is something I could apply widely and more comfortably described a certain sort of look. So while ostensibly it means a big money car wearing a healthy dose of patina and new hidden parts, it can also be a car that has survived against all the odds. It can be stock, or modified, it can be fast, or slow. The key thing is that it wears the years of neglect or careworn panels, knocks and scrapes as part of its history. It is not afraid to look like anything other than an old car. American cars, particularly 1940s and 1950s ones, lend themselves easily to this look. The climate and the lifestyle they lead just seems to create them naturally and the cars are so big, the steel so thick, that they can survive a lot of battering to get them to that point. A derelict is something that looks abandoned when you park it, though often they are quite clean and well cared for in spite of appearances. There's a few candidates right here on RR I'm already aware of too and each has their own story to tell. 1957 Renault Dauphine - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/185634/57-dauphine-movesStandard Atlas Panelvan - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/183335/atlas-panel-van-rare1971 Hillman Avenger - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/43579/1971-hillman-avenger-stuff1972 Hillman Hunter - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/88892/hillman-hunter-estate-racking-miles1965 Vauxhall Viva - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/146108?page=1#1746075I'd love to see more derelicts, especially if they have build threads like the above. To finish, here's my own little derelict which is almost ready to return to the road having spent more of its life off it than on. 1975 Renault 6TL - retrorides.proboards.com/thread/171230/princess-6tl-414sli-renault-update
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I like the term "Derelict". So much better than lumping everything as "Rat"
To be honest, when I see the 'R' word, I start to zone out, which I shouldn't but some, to me, are just not pleasing to the eye, especially when it's forced.
However, derelict I can live with and the cars you've posted (including the Renault!) sum it up well.
Off to buy my eldest something for her birthday now, but I'll cast around for some pics when I get home again.
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2016 7:23:41 GMT by Paul Y
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Great thread idea.
Maybe this can become a much more regular contributors type thread.
I like pretty much all the examples shown.
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Derelictionfr€$h&m1nt¥
@freshandminty
Club Retro Rides Member 99
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Nov 29, 2016 11:19:28 GMT
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This is the pigeon hole my acty fits in then, albeit I went for the shiny wheels option rather than patina banded wheels.
I didn't know it had a specific sub-genre either.
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Nov 29, 2016 12:17:52 GMT
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personally i love the sort of "patina" that only age and thousands of hours of wear brings with it. for example the quadrant of scuff marks you get from a set of keys hanging in an ignition barrel for 50 years, like this...
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Nov 29, 2016 13:49:47 GMT
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Absolutely if people have a suitable candidate do chuck it in! How could I have forgotten to add your truck, Paul Y? That's pretty much the definition of the term. Rat stuff can fall into this category but rat seems more punk (both in the good and the bad way) than derelict is. Certainly there's room for crossover but where rat tends to shout about itself, derelict just quietly gets on with it.
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Nov 29, 2016 13:57:27 GMT
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It is interesting how extreme rat look stuff got and so there is a 'new' style which is just what the old ratlook style was (as far as I'm concerned at least). There are so many patina/rat look VWs around now that it is impossible to state how badass that ^^^^ was when it first came out.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Nov 29, 2016 14:09:48 GMT
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Evolution of genres. What I might have called rat once I now don't because rat feels like something else to what it was. So the Sunny Citrus Commer (probably not its real name) is what I'd now consider a derelict rather than a rat. Which is odd, because it's no different looking in that picture to when I first saw it, it just feels like there's a better term for it now.
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Nov 29, 2016 15:08:22 GMT
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At last the sh!te laquer peel and faded paint on my mechanically superb slightly tuned Rocco puts it in a cool category....maybe. Now when people throw up at the sight of the finish I can correct them; "No you misunderstand its DERELICT you see, uber cool in fact, not at all crappy".
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Nov 29, 2016 15:31:49 GMT
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Yeah, but I bet you're having way more fun than if you were babying it over every little defect in the mirror finish paint, right?
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IDY
Part of things
Posts: 893
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Nov 29, 2016 15:41:56 GMT
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Vulgalour I think Yoeddynz's Viva wagon fits that brief perfectly, or will do once he has finished it
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I will get round to finishing it at some point
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Nov 29, 2016 15:48:35 GMT
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Oh my, yes.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:15:09 GMT
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I'd like to suggest that just like the original rat look definition, simply having an old and patinated car isn't the same, it needs to have had some loving care and attention to modify it (well). Otherwise it is just an old car.
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Nov 29, 2016 16:31:16 GMT
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The HA Viva reminds me of my PB Cresta when i first got it, same shade of grey on the bottom with dark blue roof if i had`nt restored it at the time it would fit in with the current trend,
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,244
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Derelictionvulgalour
@vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member 146
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Nov 29, 2016 17:34:21 GMT
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As with any genre, shorthand or description you'll get things bundled in that are not 'it'. Sometimes derelicts are just old cars, but old cars aren't always derelicts. It's a funny one, really, that this happens. I don't want to say what it isn't or really what it is because as soon as I set boundaries someone is going to challenge that perception rather than embracing 'it'. However, fundamentally it's more likely to be a car over 30 years old that's never had a proper respray, has been kept going on a shoe string budget and has had some sort of sentimental value which has kept it hanging around beyond its normal use. The car has also probably just found a new owner who likes the modification that only decades of this sort of treatment can bring about and is doing all the good work to make the car solid and reliable. yoeddynz Viva goes one route. On the outside it will look pretty much as it did, a little bit of new paint where his repair are and cleaned up wheels that give a hint that it's loved but other than that, it's just an old car. Open the bonnet or look inside and you get a surprise at how tidy and clean everything is, especially the engine bay. vauxviva 's Viva goes another route. To preserve so much of the as-found condition of the car is really quite impressive and to ensure the car is solid and sound in addition a big part of the appeal. Here's a car that will look immediately abandoned upon parking it up in a way that it's almost impossible to fake any other way than leaving a car in a barn for a couple of decades. So I politely disagree that anything that is 'just an old car' doesn't qualify and that modifications are a necessity. The modifications is decades of wear, or neglect, or both, the sort of thing most people want to restore out of a car. The derelict celebrates its age, it's car version of wrinkles and grey hair, in a quietly confident way that a rat wouldn't, that's the key thing. Here's an old car. It's not modified, it's a bit battered and rough around the edges and it's perfect just as it is. I gather this is now in new hands and likely to be restored, which is a massive shame, because it will never look like this again. It's survived for the better part of half a century and gained a look it couldn't any other way. Hmm... I appear to be quite passionate about this particular thing, don't I? It's a bit of an art form, for me, which I suppose is an odd thing to say. There's something attractive about a car (or a thing, for that matter) that looks neglected and battered and abused but is, in fact, loved and cared for and treasured. A derelict is still special to its owner, they treasure the defects and imperfections and while they're not necessarily keen on adding to them, they don't want to lose them either. Perhaps more than the look of it, it's the owner that sets these cars apart?
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andyw
North East
Posts: 238
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Nov 29, 2016 18:21:45 GMT
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I quite like the new term as patina'd gets over used.
Being on the fringes of the rat look scene with the grey probe - it gets called rat in the Probe club because it isn't shiny but really it is a budget build (I roller it because it is cheap to do and I neither own a compressor or have anywhere to spray it) but the modern interpretation of rat seems way off the original look.
On the facebook groups I joined it seems to be all about an excuse for a curse word project. Take an unloved vehicle - a hyundai accent springs to mind, put some hazard tape on it, maybe a roof rack with some curse word - don't lower it, don't do much else and tell everyone your car is rat look.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:17:26 GMT
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Bookmarked ... likely to be a car over 30 years old that's never had a proper respray, has been kept going on a shoe string budget and has had some sort of sentimental value which has kept it hanging around beyond its normal use ... The modifications is decades of wear, or neglect, or both ... it's a bit battered and rough around the edges and it's perfect just as it is ... Perhaps more than the look of it, it's the owner that sets these cars apart? Is it fair to summarise this by saying a derelict is a slightly shabby unrestored daily or workhorse from the 80s or earlier, and the owner is "a bit special" ? Sounds about right to me Alternatively, fix any failing bodywork, forget about a nice paintjob, repair/modernise/upgrade the mechanicals as time & funds & opportunities allow. Having just returned from a couple of weeks working away (a 600 mile round trip to Wales fully loaded with ballast, tat, and tools) my derelict (aka 70s daily workhorse) was ultra-reliable as always Shame it's now on restricted duties until I can replace the unhappy carbon-disk clutch release bearing Long may this style (and this thread) continue!
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Nov 29, 2016 20:26:07 GMT
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its like rat has had to start all over again, it probably started when rat became 'rat look', and perfectly good cars were taken and ruined in the quest for cool points, and so it evolved. Ill just look at them and think of my dads term for old ratty cars. Tired old snotters. So when derelict becomes 'detelict look', we'll just call them snotters.
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2016 20:28:00 GMT by bmcnut
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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I suppose my view would be in line with the chap that coined the phrase derelict. A body with no or very few noticeable modifications wearing its original paint work, battle scars and all, but with a drive train suspension and brakes that allow it to be used in everyday traffic. Yup. I like that. P.
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