joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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This is probably as close as I'm going to get. There are four different adjustments. You have each individual throttle body:  An idler screw for each pair:  Then you have the linkage rod for each pair:  And then finally the overall adjustment screw. Some playing with all of these got everything much closer together - the general process was to back off all adjustment screws first, and set an idle of about 1200rpm. Then balance each pair. If any of them were way off from another pair, use the linkage rod to get them closer if it's too high, or the idler screw if it's too low. This is where I ended up:  Is it better? Who knows, but I had to drink plenty of beer whilst doing this, so I get to find out tomorrow now. |
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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Did it work?
No.
I mean, it definitely runs slightly better, but the low throttle backfiring through the ITBs is still there. And I'm glad I did the exercise, as it already sounds way smoother.
However, I had a thought. The backfiring is definitely less when the car is warming up. There's two things that happen during warm up - more fuel, and more timing advance. So I'm back to adding advance to the ignition map to see if that remedies the situation.
I'd also like to try throwing a camera in the engine bay to see if I can narrow it down to a pair of ITBs, or at least see if it seems to be the whole system.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,285
Club RR Member Number: 146
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This whole set up thing sounds very frustrating.
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jpsmit
Posted a lot
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Not sure about injection, but with carbs, ignition in the intake manifold is typically a sign of running lean while backfiring in the exhaust is too rich. You mention more gas during warm up and less 'backfiring' can you program it richer?
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Make sure the TPS is calibrated properly or no amount of messing with the tables will work. On my Mini with a MBE ECU it’s a very fine line between it being right or wrong and it would pop and bang like curse word until I’d got it set right. This was not just in the ecu settings but physically set right too with a multimeter.
I know your ecu is different but might be worth searching if there’s a correct way of installing the TPS.
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joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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Not sure about injection, but with carbs, ignition in the intake manifold is typically a sign of running lean while backfiring in the exhaust is too rich. You mention more gas during warm up and less 'backfiring' can you program it richer? It is definitely lean when the popping happens - the AFR is around 17 sometimes. The annoying thing is that there isn't anything that should be cutting fuel. I can definitely make it richer at the low throttle area though. Make sure the TPS is calibrated properly or no amount of messing with the tables will work. On my Mini with a MBE ECU it’s a very fine line between it being right or wrong and it would pop and bang like curse word until I’d got it set right. This was not just in the ecu settings but physically set right too with a multimeter. I know your ecu is different but might be worth searching if there’s a correct way of installing the TPS. Until this post, I had no reason to question the TPS - it reads 0% when closed, and 100% when fully open inside Tunerstudio... but who knows. I'll test it with a multimeter. |
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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This whole set up thing sounds very frustrating. Yeah, but it's getting there. It's all going to be worth it. |
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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I feel like I'm getting there. I'm happy with the ignition map, now I'm tweaking all the low-throttle fuelling manually. The firing through the intake is definitely lessened with a richer tune, so maybe that's just what this ITB setup wants. I've set the five bottom rows of my fuel map to 0, 2.5, 5, 7.5 and 10% throttle position. This gives me a load of control over the small throttle movements where the popping noise normally happens. Now I'm just tweaking, adding fuel and using VEAL for the rest of the map. It definitely feels like it's a move in the right direction. Sadly, it'll be winter here in a month and it'll be in the garage for another half year. But at least I have a garage now!! In other news, Finn is our next foster. Very scared and nervous, clearly had a rough start to life. He's about twice the size we were expecting from the description, but an absolute champ.  |
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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Oct 19, 2020 16:33:55 GMT
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Previously I said it will be winter in a month or so. Little did I know that Minnesota was going to surprise me with snow on October 16th. We're forecast 5.5" tomorrow.  Looks like that's it for driving the Datsun this year. Maybe now I'll have to finish the interior, once I get a space heater for the garage. |
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Last Edit: Oct 19, 2020 16:37:00 GMT by joeytalent
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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Switching injectors again. I have some (most likely knock-off) Rav 4 injectors in the car just now, but I've had a set of RX8 yellow tops on the shelf for a while. Always intended putting them back on... Well, as I started on taking the only ones out, two of the wires to various injector connectors became disconnected from the plugs. So now I'm just going to build a new injector loom.  |
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1) Finn's a beauty. How the hell do you let them go after the foster? I'd have a houseful. Oh, hang on...  2) That snow pic made me cold just looking at it. 3) You're getting there with the 280, keep bashing away! |
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joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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1) Finn's a beauty. How the hell do you let them go after the foster? I'd have a houseful. Oh, hang on... 2) That snow pic made me cold just looking at it. 3) You're getting there with the 280, keep bashing away! 1) It's going to be really tough giving him up, his new family pick him up today at 8PM. New pup arrives on Saturday though - she's about half the size and looks crazy. We'll keep one eventually! 2) It was -13C over the weekend, 23C today. I love this time of year, just for the complete randomness! 3) I'll get there eventually. I'll feel much better with a new loom for the injectors - the one attached to the ECU just now was always a bit stretched - I much prefer having one that I can remove with the fuel rail as required. Got some more interior goodies being delivered as well. I've actually been spending more time working with the buddy on his 911 - we're pretty close to getting that fired up soon, just a couple of fuel fittings away. |
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joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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New injectors in, new Viton o-rings and a new wiring loom for the injectors with a weatherproof plug so I can disconnect the injectors if I want.  |
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joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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New pup is here and she's settled in so quickly we decided she was ready for the Datsun. Probably the last day driving after an unexpected heatwave, and she was an absolute champ. We went out to a park, met a couple of friends... and then got pulled over by the rozzers when we were leaving for doing 30 in a 20, and having no front plate. Officer was very nice, no ticket and explained I should probably get collectors plates. Did the new injectors make a difference? Not really. Maybe. Not sure. The car is running pretty well, just not at low throttle.  |
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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Also, I think the car leans to one side. I measured floor to top of the arch on both sides, and they're within 5mm. More measurements to be taken once I have some more time over winter.   |
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It does look like it’s sagging on the left. You’d think it’d be on the right with that being the drivers side.
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joeytalent
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ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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It does look like it’s sagging on the left. You’d think it’d be on the right with that being the drivers side. I'm in the US - car is LHD. Looks like its sags on the passenger side to me. The shocks and springs are only 3 or so years old. I'm going to take some measurements to see if my eyes deceive me or not. I have long suspected the car has been in a minor front end impact at some point as it has different coloured bumper hinges, and the horns are missing. Low impact enough to not have touched the AC rad though. I've got some winter plans that will necessitate removing the front lower valance anyway, so I'll get a good look then. |
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they usually leak out the back of the m/cyl , and take the paint off the brake servo , yours is looking a bit rustic there.
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75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door
84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door
78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van
98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo
04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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joeytalent
Part of things
ITB Everything.
Posts: 440
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they usually leak out the back of the m/cyl , and take the paint off the brake servo , yours is looking a bit rustic there. Definitely! Sounds like a good winter project 👍🏻 Will actually be a good time to swap the steering coupler as well because access sucks normally |
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Also, apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread but make sure there is enough clearance on the inlet valve adjustment, as tight valves can cause the fleame to ignite the charge in the intake L series engines get bigger valve clearance as they warm up , and the clearances should be set when they are hot. You were saying it backfires less when it is hot so check them valves.
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75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door
84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door
78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van
98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo
04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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