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Apr 21, 2018 13:22:52 GMT
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In terms of the rough running... Yes, this will be the most likely contender. I've done what I can to fix it and seal it and it has improved but I'm still not happy so once I've done the tappets my next task is going to be to block off the servo/inlet and see if the problem goes away. If it does, another servo will be needed, hopefully a better quality one next time and I will check it over properly before fitting it. Aside from discovering the valve connector was loose the servo also came to me out of the box with the following damage (pic below). At the time, at the garage where the car was, I and the garage geezer had a bit of a looksy and a bit of a murmur, and I suggested that maybe we try and cover it and just get it on the car - the car was only meant to be going in for a 20 minute MOT and they'd had it for almost two weeks by this point. The garage geezer, a man of few words, said "It shouldn't be a problem but I wouldn't bother trying to stick anything over it, I'd just leave it as it is if I were you". So I have no idea if this bit of damage on the cap could have opened up and started to cause problems as well... if this is likely to be leaking and killing vacuum then I may well attempt another short term bodger-fix just for the time being... (edit... I mean, it's highly unlikely as its a vented cap anyway, hence I haven't really worried about it. But open to any experiments at this point)
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Last Edit: Apr 21, 2018 14:42:10 GMT by Deleted
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Apr 21, 2018 15:00:57 GMT
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Yes those lifters/nuts/guide plates/pushrods look like upgrade items. The 12 point nuts are just pinch nuts by the look of it, so no locking nut, just turn to adjust and thats it. As said a standard socket will fit them.
If that part of the servo is leaking in then a bodge would be to cover it with a thin coat of sikaflex or similar.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,878
Club RR Member Number: 39
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This was the NAUGHTY CORNERDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Apr 21, 2018 15:23:34 GMT
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If there is a step between the head and the manifold, it is most likley that heads have been skimmed - not out of the question if they are performance items - but the inlet manifold was not skimmed on its faces to match.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:46:47 GMT
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Darkspeed, My assessment so far is exactly that. It's been run for years this way so at this point I'm unlikely to try and address it and I'll just have hope I do a good job of fitting the new gaskets to minimise any issues this may cause. I guess doing it properly would probably require some more machining somewhere, or maybe a thinner inlet gasket. In my mind, skimming anything to even out the difference in a v shaped valley is merely going to cause misalignment and open things up.
Blackpop. Good to know as I was wondering about whether they are locked and if so how do I unlock/relock pre-post adjusting.
Had a few minutes between kid stuff so just for curiosity's sake I tested a few gaps. Of the ones I tested so far (done purely as a casual test only) did seem a bit roomy.
Going to get up super early tomorrow and get them all done, then get the covers back on.
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Last Edit: Apr 21, 2018 15:54:07 GMT by Deleted
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,059
Club RR Member Number: 77
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This was the NAUGHTY CORNERmk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Apr 21, 2018 15:50:29 GMT
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The cologne v6 was the same in my granny for the discrepancy between head and inlet manifold. If you can, use a razor/stanley blade to trim the protruding gasket and just use a dab of sealant of your choice to take up the slack
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Apr 21, 2018 15:56:39 GMT
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Ahhh, another good tip thank you. The gasket is there in the step-down as a little spongy nub and I was unsure whether I should try and shave it or leave it so it can continue to clog up a bit of the gap. It doesn't fill me with confidence about the quality of the engine upgrade but perhaps the heads were skimmed after if we done. Its been a turnkey runner ever since I've had it so hopefully it's not a portent of worse workmanship below deck.
I've got Blue Hylomar in store. I'll probably be doing the mating surfaces with that to hold the rocker gaskets.
Does that seem okay? Would anyone recommend something else?
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Last Edit: Apr 21, 2018 16:12:02 GMT by Deleted
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Apr 21, 2018 16:55:53 GMT
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Hylomar is a great sealant, not so good for gap filling though. If no gaps ok, if a gap needs filling then a good RTV sealant is better. Don't sweat the engine, if it runs well it's been done properly.
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Apr 21, 2018 17:39:21 GMT
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no i meant maybe that was making the noise , the servo valve ?
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Apr 21, 2018 21:23:27 GMT
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no i meant maybe that was making the noise , the servo valve ? My gut feel is no. Based on the noise being present for much longer than the crude running, which only appeared on the last two trips out. Also, the noise seems to come from the glove box. It doesn't, but that's where it seems to come through, which is why if it is tappets I suspect the N/S bank. the rear most n/s are actually in need of adjusting. But having said all of that, it hadn't occurred to me it could be connected. So it's worth thinking about that. The noise could have preceded reaching a critical point where its now affecting running.
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Hmmmmm.
Amateurs dilemma. I'm now outside turning engine to check the valves. At first it felt like they were all impossibly tight. Then I realised I need to get each valve to the very back of the cam lobe. A few handle turns beyond the valve's initial "up" point.
Having done that and been back through them all it seems clear to me they are all tighter than the Kent Cams recommended figure of .41mm. Seems to be more like .3mm. Haven't yet tried to get a specific reading.
So the only exception to that is the rear most n/s valve which can very comfortably fit my gauge through with a sense of slop, and is therefore much larger than the others and could well be making a noise.
So the dilemma is... Do I get an accurate reading off the rest and set it to match, or do I reset them ALL just to match a figure printed in a Kent Cams data set, even though he car run fine with these gaps all this time?
It's odd that that one is slack and that's the area where I've always felt the noise is coming from.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2018 9:12:55 GMT by Deleted
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,348
Club RR Member Number: 64
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This was the NAUGHTY CORNERglenanderson
@glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member 64
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Just tighten the "odd" one to match the rest, and see where that leaves you.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Just tighten the "odd" one to match the rest, and see where that leaves you. Hehe, it's like you read my mind. Seemed like the logical thing to do. The thing about me and sensing a logical thing to do is I interrogate my reasoning thoroughly, consider all possible variables and unanticipated outcomes, and then once absolutely confident my actions are sound, sensible and enlightened, I take the action. Then two nights later I sit bolt upright in bed at 3am hyperventilating because my brain just threw me a huge doubt. But anyway, it's what I done did.
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Apr 22, 2018 11:00:17 GMT
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My wife had a friend over to stay last night. As she left she came and had a look at my car. She's not a car person.
My wife's friends, who are not car people at all, will always have a look at my car and say the same two things:
1. Oh it's lovely isn't it.
My car, by any measure anybody might car to utilise, is most definitely not lovely. When you stand next to it and look at the paint, it's like Halfords sent a probe up to the moon packed with satin black paint and sprayed a patch of the moon's surface black. It's just not lovely at all, but the assumption is that I'm a bloke and I'm therefore so passionately proud of my car that the only appropriate thing to say is how lovely it is.
It really can't be misconstrued as lovely. In order to try and stop them walking away thinking "my god the poor sod's utterly deluded", I fi d myself trying to explain that, we'll, no it's not lovely at all its a very very rough and imperfect car and "lovely" isn't really what I look for in an old car.
That then leads them to feel they need to reassure me. That I'm feeling inadequate and having a crisis of self-effacement. "Oh no it IS lovely Tim and it's yours and not many people are as lucky as you", or other words of gentle encouragement.
"errr, right. Okay"
The next thing is always a look in the engine bay if it's open. And without fail...
2. "OHHHH hasn't it got a tiny little engine! It's looks like a sporty car but it's got such a tiny engine!"
A difficult one that. The previous 5 times it's transpired they're looking at the carburettor once they've been perplexed by the vast empty space at the front of the engine bay... But to try and correct them seems pedantic and pointless, and past experience tells me that attempting to do so gets entangled in an assumption that they've possibly wounded my fragile male ego by remarking at how tiny it is. The car being traditionally seen as a social symbol of male virility and a phallic representation. So in the past when I've pointed the actual engine out it's lead to a really awkward moment where they have very clearly had a little internal panic along the lines of "Oh my god I've just inadvertantly attacked the very core of his male sexual identity and now he's desperate to prove its bigger than it looks" and they try and compensate by then going "Oh my gosh yes it's enormous and very powerful looking, wow I'm impressed".
They've obviously never looked at an engine before so have no way to gauge its size, and they clearly walk away going "We'll it's got a really big bulge but there's nothing in it".
So now I just agree that its possibly the smallest engine ever made, and I wish I had a bigger one.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2018 11:01:55 GMT by Deleted
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Apr 22, 2018 11:54:18 GMT
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Lol, you DO overthink things, Car looks lovely by the way Just tell them its a 3 litre before you open the bonnet, otherwise fit a big block Chevy - they won't say its small then Most people think satin black is great (?) as all the new BMW's & Mercs are now wrapped in it, so they probably think yours is very cool and up to date style wise. Ref tappets - difficult as the gap might be correct for the cam/lifters that are in there - so Kent cams info may not be correct for your engine. I agree with Glen - set that to match the others.
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Apr 22, 2018 12:26:09 GMT
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Tappets all done. Just decided to have a half-hearted attempt at cleaning up the rocker covers. My car buddy who runs an immaculate P5b always chides me for not cleaning and polishing something up if I've got it off the car. I totally get the logic of it but for me it will add another £20 of cleaning products and another two hours of faffing around, and I'm usually in suppressed crisis mode so all I want to do is get the ruddy thing back together to see if it's going to blow up. Using what I had to hand though (Cutlery, DVD case, Old bra) I decided I'd give them a little bit of a wipe over. Then I cleaned the insides and the contact face ready to fit the new gaskets. I bought the gaskets about a year ago from BurtonPower and put them straight into my parts bin ready for when I need them. Having never taken these rocker covers off before it had never occurred to me they might not fit. They're Essex rocker covers. How different can they be? So I have to assume there's a difference between the old type Essex and the later D-port type, or that I somehow ordered something entirely different by mistake (Cologne maybe) when I clicked the order button... because these puppies are definitely not going to fit So there ends my fun for today! The funny thing about my thought processes is that my job is largely based on how a company can find a solution within the guts of a problem. So when I looked at these gaskets with their obviously too small, incorrectly shaped and differently numbered stud holes, my brain immediately started thinking "okay, so how can we make these work" and started flashing up a mental powerpoint presentation featuring a step-by-step walk through with scalpels and duct tape. I will say this though... it is very mildly less shouty trying to fit the spark plugs in the O/S bank with the rocker cover off ... so I may well just leave them both off so I can change the plugs easier next time. It's only oil FFS.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2018 13:30:32 GMT by Deleted
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Apr 22, 2018 13:33:51 GMT
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Looking at your original gasket - if both are that good you can re use them. Clean thoroughly with thinners/petrol/washing up liquid etc (not all 3 lol) and clean rocker covers. Smear hylomar on rocker cover face and also gasket face. Leave to dry and then stick them together. Then smear a little hylomar on the other face of gasket before fitting to engine - leave a few mins to set and the fit to engine. Tighten evenly - but don't over tighten. You can re tighten after a decent run in the car.
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Apr 22, 2018 14:09:02 GMT
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Nah, they look okay in the pic I guess but they've been on there for years now, and have been crushed down. They've been weeping oil for a long time already. The mating area is compressed absolutely rock solid. I did think about sticking them back on but decided that it was probably just going to end up being something I have to do all over again. So I'm going to wait for the new ones and hopefully just do it once.
I'm really not that bothered to be honest. BP are always quick to send stuff out and they only cost a few quid for the pair. It also gives me a few days to pause and have that confidence destroying 3am panic-thought before I fit the new rocker covers and put everything back together.
It also means I can think more about trying to resolve my leaking sump plug, because that definitely got a lot worse after driving for three hours on Friday. Once parked back up it was more than merely an occasional drip. I've had to put my oil tray under the car. It's doing whatever comes after 'dripping' but before 'trickling'. It's not anywhere near good enough to be driving around. It's going to give out and dump all my oil.
I've had to face the facts today... this old dog will not be in attendance at RRG. At the very least I have to finish the tappets job up, do a decent and thoroughly dependable job of resolving the sump plug, and then continue trying to figure out exactly why it's stumbling when hot. It also struggles to start when hot now too and that's going to be something else entirely different that I need to tackle. This car has just decided to have a complete nervous breakdown and throw me everything it can at once. I haven't even mentioned that the brake fluid, topped up about a month ago (I don't mean merely 'topped up' I mean it was refillled after new brake cylinders were fitted), was down at the 'danger' line when I looked on Friday. Might be something to do with the servo maybe, but equally it could be a leak somewhere else and I haven't got anywhere near looking into that yet.
I'm going to be in my wife's Skoda yeti for the RRG weekend. I have no time left to try and fix all this to get it there.
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2018 14:46:50 GMT by Deleted
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,348
Club RR Member Number: 64
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This was the NAUGHTY CORNERglenanderson
@glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member 64
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Apr 22, 2018 18:46:38 GMT
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If you’re losing brake fluid, and there’s no visible leak, then through the servo and into the engine is a strong possibility. If the inside of the vacuum pipe is wet, that’s your proof.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Apr 22, 2018 19:21:05 GMT
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Good tip Glen. I'll check it out.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,348
Club RR Member Number: 64
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This was the NAUGHTY CORNERglenanderson
@glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member 64
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Apr 22, 2018 21:28:57 GMT
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Good tip Glen. I'll check it out. No worries. You can also get a grey/white smoke from the exhaust if the brake fluid leak is bad, but not if it’s a slow weep. I had a servo diaphragm let go on my P4 and the combination of air leak into the manifold, plus brake fluid into the intake, caused some pretty lumpy running (and mediocre braking) before the fluid level dropped to the point where the brakes stopped working. It wasn’t until then I realised where the problem was. Is yours a remote servo, or is it bolted directly between the pedal and the master cylinder?
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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