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A question for all who daily drive something that is prone to rust, what is the best way to rust proof and drive smart to reduce the risk? So I'm considering daily driving my Mini Sprite or 'Bernard' as he has been named, as a daily car for a while while I sort out my main car and swap to something more interesting/practical, so from a 63 plate Fabia hopefully to a 3.0R Legacy or 325 E30, fingers crossed So what do you guys do apart from underseal and avoid salty roads to stop your cars from developing the dreaded crispy scabs? Btw this is 'Bernard' looking sad in the rain:
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quasimoto
Part of things
I started out with nothing and i have still got most of it left
Posts: 238
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wash the road grime off on a regular basis under seal everywhere that is open to the elements / arches , under sills and i am forever just painting anything that will rust and cause problems no real cure for rust probably inevitable but just keep on top of it plus a good few wax polishes helps , even used bees honey wax on alloys during the winter to keep the corrosion at bay
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Last Edit: Feb 6, 2016 13:33:23 GMT by quasimoto
Mad As A Box Of Frogs
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Make sure that it is dry and rust free before undersealing and make sure to fetch off any loose stuff before hand.
All the cavities can be treated with wax oil
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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I suspect there will be many diverse opinions on this one. Partly it depends how much work you want to do, if you're willing to go to town on the underside then stripping and epoxy will give you good protection. But if you're looking for something quick, cheap and simple then the best I've come across is the good old fashioned 50/50 mix of Waxoyl and 20W/50 engine oil. It won't last for ever but so long as you get underneath once a year and give it a fresh application it seems to work pretty well. It is a messy job though!
Waxoyl by itself, even when applied hot, tend to sit on the surface and doesn't creep into the metal - which is why you mix it 50/50 with engine oil. I've applied this to some quite crusty undersides and it has kept them going for years. The fact you need to apply it every year is really a bonus since it means you check the underside on a regular basis.
I have tried many expensive treatments and not found anything that lasts as well.
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I swear by Bilt Hamber products,Dynax S50 for cavity protection and the black wax for underbody. The S50 has fantastic creep properties,it sprays like water and gets into every nook and cranny.Unlike Waxoyl you don't have to warm the can and you get a decent length of lance with the spray cans that sprays in four different directions. I did the sills and inner arches on the Eunos with it and it was still dripping out of drain holes a day later.Never get that with Waxoyl out of the can but it will be better mixed with old oil as above. It's a summers day job when the car is bone dry underneath and it's messy but worth it.
Other than that i never use it on salted roads and wash any grime off quickly,especially in traps like under the arch lips.So many cars have a 1/2 inch thick layer of dried mud sat in the arch lip.
Make sure any drain holes are clear too in the sills and door bottoms etc,lots of cars were designed to drain water into and (hopefully!)out of the sills.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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IMHO you will never truly stop the rust but you will certainly slow things down. Old car simply have more rust traps and the quality of the metal does not seem as good as it is now. I know my dad's '89 XR3i was welded on pretty much every panel underneath when he sold in in 2000. My Clio in comparison has never seen a welder and is an older car now. I don't think I have not owned a retro without it rusting despite applying underseal. This however seems to work for me.
1)Put cavity wax into all of the sections. 2) If you see flaking underseal do not leave it - it will trap water. Remove it until the underseal is good and reapply. 3)If you see surface dust deal with it ASAP 4)Keep the car clean. IMHO pressure washers are superb here. Any dirt that is hanging about in the wheelarches a pressure washer will remove it. I know with some classic cars when I have first washed them I have ended up removing what seems like a load of earth from underneath the wheelarches. 5)Water leaks inside the car will not help at all. Change the seals or leave them at your peril.
Oh, and use decent products that will not dry out. Bilt Hamber do great stuff here like their Dynax S50 and their underseal which is self healing.
It's one reason why I have stopped having a retro as a daily ; I simply got sick of welding in a new spot despite the underside being clean come MOT time. My MGB was welded on the chassis leg where previously it was fine. Same with the Stag. The last time I saw it the car had rotted out in a previously fine spot of the floorpan!
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There is not really any point doing waxing in this weather whilst your car is wet , its only going to trap moisture .
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 348
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Get some plastic front wheel arch liners. Minis love to rot all around that area. I had some on a Clubman. The rest of the car was a crusty mess but behind the liners was like new.
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IMHO you will never truly stop the rust but you will certainly slow things down. Old car simply have more rust traps and the quality of the metal does not seem as good as it is now. I don't think I have not owned a retro without it rusting despite applying underseal. This however seems to work for me. [...] It's one reason why I have stopped having a retro as a daily ; I simply got sick of welding in a new spot despite the underside being clean come MOT time. I know this is why I don't run one as a daily and save the Capri for summer only. Even doing that odd bits of surface rust still break out, so I hate to think what it would be like if it got exposed to water on a regular basis!
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I tend to hide from wet roads, and never go out in salt, but if the car does get grubby wash it immediately.
A good pressure washer is your friend here. I run a 10% TFR solution as a pre-wash and concentrate on under the arches and along the sills.
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FOAD
Scotland
Posts: 1,335
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I drive my cars in all weathers, nothing is too good to warrant hiding it away over the winter.
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1981 Vauxhall Chevette 1984 Mercedes S123 230TE 1988 Peugeot 305 GR 1988 Hyundai Stellar 1992 Subaru MV BRAT 1992 Peugeot 205 D-turbo 2004 Ford Ranger retroshite.wordpress.com/
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I drive my cars in all weathers, nothing is too good to warrant hiding it away over the winter. I would have agreed with you if I had the space to weld and fix the cars, not mention the time. When you only have a driveway for work and it is always being used by others, taking a few weeks to have your pride and joy welded up is not an option. That and I am not rich enough to simply throw away the value of a car by neglecting it unless I buy a wreck in the first place, but then I cannot really fix them like I used to due to the aforementioned point and neighbours (they'd probably now have a field day if I was welding things up a weekend). Maybe you are .
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Id never underseal a car. I'm convinced it causes more rot than it stops. Id only ever use wax based products as protection.
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Not sure about that, from a comercials point of view most of the Transits that have survived were the ones with the factory underseal option.
My experiance of wax oil type underbody waxes hasn't been too positive as its peeled off in sheets on one of my vehicles.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,082
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Cleanliness is key, really. It's the salt and moisture that does the damage combined with stone chips. At this time of year it isn't always possible to clean and wax the car but there's usually time to at least hose off the worst of the muck. Pay particular attention to sills and inner arches as these collect the worst damage the quickest. If water is getting into the car for any reason, remove the carpets to help the floors out until you can fix the leak. Avoid using pressure washers, these really can do more harm than good and can easily blast off protective coatings leaving the car exposed to corrosion.
If you have a regular inspection of the underside of the car and the common rot areas you can usually catch a problem before it becomes terminal. Avoid the temptation of poking at any problems that are starting unless you know you have the means to remedy it. I didn't do regular inspection of my Princess which has just as much of a propensity to rot as your Mini and I paid the price after using it for a couple of years as a regular ordinary car. It's compounded when there's bodge and bad repairs.
Obviously, avoiding salted roads, rain and gritters is going to be sensible but it's not always practical. Never put the car away in a garage wet if it can be helped as this can promote corrosion. It's a Mini, keep an eagle eye on the seams and you should be okay. Expect some welding and/or paintwork to be needed every year to keep it pristine.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Not sure about that, from a comercials point of view most of the Transits that have survived were the ones with the factory underseal option. My experiance of wax oil type underbody waxes hasn't been too positive as its peeled off in sheets on one of my vehicles. factory underseal is a different kettle of fish, mostly cos its being fitted to a brand new shell. I'm referring to cheap aftermarket stuff lashed on by over-enthusiastic 'restorers'. i see the underneath of a LOT of classic, vintage and retro cars and the general trend is the best condition ones have never seen underseal, whereas the worst ones have. just my observation though, no science behind it.
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Do you remember Ziebart? That actually seemed to work.
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Firsy, pick a car that's had inside the sills rustproofed from new for an easy life Put it up on ramps at the end of the summer (pick a warm dry day if possible), wire-brush any loose stuff underneath, weld up holes/scabby bits (hopefully none found) *lots* of waxoyl (pour into soup-dish and apply with an old paintbrush) long hot bath (you, not the car) to get rid of the rust flakes & waxoyl splashes. pub!
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Ive used truck bed liner spray on the underside of the discovery - no waxoil or anything similar. The plan is to keep an eye on it and clean/repaint as required. It gets used as my daily and offroad so my plan is to see if the liner coating lasts longer than waxoil.
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Ignosce mihi cacare necesse est
2012 Fiat Qubo Sadly currently living a retroless life
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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Get some plastic front wheel arch liners. Minis love to rot all around that area. I had some on a Clubman. The rest of the car was a crusty mess but behind the liners was like new. Absolutely this. I see people putting tons of work into their cars, new wings and front panels, inner arches all painted up - then run the car like that! Your tyres are like an angle grinder wheel, nothing shot-blasts your paint like taking the car for a drive. Anything in the firing line of the tyres need a proper shield, and that being nothing less than a plastic wheel arch liner. The 1980's VW Polo came with them as standard. Rusty front wings were never a problem (though they can go under the coupe's arch extensions). Metros and Fiestas didn't have them fitted. And we all know what happened there. In the case of the mini in question, this is paramount. There are all sorts of seams and traps going on. Where the A-panel sits over the door hinge column there's a major trap there, and seam sealer is woefully inadequate because vibration of the panel breaks the seal.. Up front, and the multitude of seams and traps around the back of the lights have always been a problem, yet still the mini was never fitted with arch liners - simple solution is to fit small trailer arches with screws replacing the rivets for the outer arch extensions.
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