MonzaPhil
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought
Posts: 2,456
|
|
|
I'd buy a classic.
Having spent over a decade giving P38 owners bad news.
If you really have to then yes, the 4.0 fails less than the 4.6, again I've never seen a decent gas converted one, don't buy a manual one, the diesel ones are awful unless you get them remapped to BMW spec and even then you still end up with a car that will happily lock you out/in, flatten it's battery, drop to its bump stops, rot through its brake pipes in an inconvenient place etc etc. Warning noises, warning lights......
We have only had to weld 2 of them though. One had a bumper bracket rusted through and the other had 3 feet of sill.
A classic is a better car and a better investment.
|
|
This is now a clicky linky! ![](http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w122/ThE_sNiPeRs_PiCs/Sig%20Pics/P250211_0856-1-1-1.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've got a 4.0 base model and love it to bits despite the fact that it has thrown more than it's fair share of wobblies. That said, there's a solution to pretty much every problem that they're known for and replacement parts are readily available and not overly expensive. And they're an extremely comfortable vehicle to drive.
|
|
1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
|
|
Smiler
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
|
|
|
I still have a pair of remapping chips from my old BMW 525TDS. The repeated comment regarding the LPG running issues on the V8 is a concern.
Nothing is going to happen within 6 months anyway apart from me keeping an eye on prices whilst finishing and selling the Escort and getting the black Scimitar a bit more civilised. If I can find a classic within budget when the time comes then I shall get one. On ebay they currently range from £1500 for spares or repair to £10K plus. But if useable Classics can still be bought for under a grand then I shall keep scouring the classifieds.
I am handy with the spanners and not too shabby with vehicle electrics (I own two Scimitars and have two running engine conversions under my belt) though I don't have any test kit other than a multi-meter. I shall investigate how much a diagnostic machine is going to cost me.
Thanks all for the help and the warnings, it's all very much appreciated.
Smiler.
|
|
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
|
|
Nath
Part of things
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Looking for a Retro
Posts: 302
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 10:18:36 GMT
|
|
|
|
|
scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 10:59:54 GMT
|
I had a P38 diesel on springs and hated the gutless bouncy thing. I had a 4.6HSE (2000 facelift in Oslo blue with beige leather, all the toys and wood) and absolutely loved it - the LPG system was faultless. I had the immobilizer problems (the only thing I took it to a dealer for), door lock replacement (fiddly), transfer box (my fault I stretched the chains doing an emergency recovery without the proper equipment), air suspension system (a doddle to repair). HG finally killed it but the new owner fitted a replacement engine and is still enjoying it. service parts are cheap as chips and when the wife backed it into a tree and smashed the back window and dented the frame, I picked up a complete hatch at the local 4WD specialist breakers in the right colour and fitted it in about 10 minutes. Having said that I'd swap it back for the 300TDi 90 Defender that it replaced in a heartbeat ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 11:22:02 GMT
|
Interesting isn't it? Please don't get me wrong, this isn't a dig at anyone but... In the main, all those pro are owners/ex-owners, whilst all those anti, with the odd exception, are LR specialists. Not making a thing, but it strikes me that owners who make the effort to understand, look after and keep on top of the vehicle have a lot less problems than those who do nothing and then take the wreckage to MonzaPhil or the like, which would account for their poor experience. If I'd taken mine, as bought, into a UK Land Rover specialist, I can see why they'd be a tad negative about the vehicle. However a couple of years of gentle work, with the right kit sees me with a nice reliable motor again. This can't just be a '38 thing though, can it? Surely any multi-grand '90s luxury vehicle is going to get the same reaction and for the same reasons, although I can see the RR suffering because of their (IMHO ill deserved ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ) bad reputation and consequent low price being bought by folk who can't/won't spend on maintenance. Haven't we seen examples on this very site of Jaguars, Mercedes, BMWs and yes, even Rolls, in the same position?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 11:45:25 GMT
|
I had a 2001 2.5 DSE for about 6 months, I bought it as like yourself had a Range Rover itch I wanted to scratch....how I wish I hadn't bothered, people warned me off them left right and centre before I bought it...how I wish I had listened.. I think I ended up about 2k out of pocket with it in the end, replaced every bloody thing on it, it spent more time on the back of an AA truck than on the road. I had issues with the alarm, I had issues with electrics so that when I pressed the brake pedal the dash ( revs,speedo) stopped working till I released it, I had issues with the suspension, the U/Js, it couldn't even tow a VW beetle without overheating despite myself and the local lr specialist going over it time and time again, replacing the fan, the rad,the oil coolers etc. replaced countless O rings on the cooling system, cheap but as said before an entire day's work. Final straw came one day I put my foot down to overtake a car, about halfway past I heard a noise that sounded like I'd run over a plastic plant pot...few hundred yards down the road the dash lit up like a Christmas tree and the temp shot off the gauge, pulled over straightaway and shut it off...lifted the bonnet to find the viscous fan (new shitpart) had fallen to bits, chewed itself up and sliced through the water pipes, the oil cooler pipes and holed the pas reservoir..that in it self cost over 700 quid with me doing it myself... A few days after repairing it I went up to Shropshire and on return the low coolant warning came on, it had used nearly all of its water with no evidence of where it had gone, no leaks nothing..topped it up, shut the bonnet and drove to the nearest garage where I part exed it there and then for a Subaru Forester, which has now been swapped for an xc90 d5 which is a much better all rounder. By all means get one if you fancy it, but don't say you weren't warned!!
|
|
1984 Subaru GLF Hatch 1983 Skoda 120LE Super estelle 1977 Subaru DL Wagon 1978 Datsun 120Y Coupe 1995 Skoda favorit estate
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 11:58:09 GMT
|
A decent modern lpg injection system should be just about indistinguishable from running on petrol, unfortunately there are some shocking LPGA approved installs out there including mixer systems which are never going to work
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 12:30:53 GMT
|
I think an important distinction should be made between buying a bad car, and a bad example of a good car. In my opinion the P38 is fundamentally far from being a bad car.
If you buy a bad Micra there's only so much that can go wrong, but a P38 is a complex beast with the potential to throw big bills at you - buy wisely, and bear in mind how cheap these are to purchase.
PS. Do it!
|
|
|
|
MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,965
Club RR Member Number: 29
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 12:42:46 GMT
|
We've got a Disco II (face-lift) TD5 and without tempting fate it runs fine currently at 115K (we've done about 40K of that), the best thing we did was to find a good specialist (Swindon 4x4) who we've used for years. Yes we've had a couple of the common problems, '3 amigos' earthing fix to ABS block, FPR fix made worse (i.e. more expensive) because I tried to fix it. A couple of air bags for the rear suspension. As for rust can't see any and it does get a bit muddy but I do try to keep it clean underneath. It does get used fairly regularly to tow a horse box and I wouldn't tow with anything else. We'd love a Range Rover and I do occasionally look at L322 V8's, the BMW V8 running LPG sounds like a good bet, prices are coming down on these as well for example (this one has the Jaguar engine?) or ready converted to LPG link. Big negative for me of Disco 3/4 and RR is that I like the side hinged door on the Disco (and Defender).
|
|
1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 21:58:42 GMT
|
Scoobypete......I did tell you!!!! Lol
|
|
|
|
pOG
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
SHATNER'S BASSOON
Posts: 1,340
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 23:27:38 GMT
|
Oooh, I do likes a nice RR. A nice classic Vogue SE, in Westminster grey with all the trimmings would be pretty high on my lozza list. Back when I was in my late teens, my boss had a new-ish 'soft-dash' classic, which I would often get the use of. Bestowing a 3.9-litre V8 on an 18-year-old youth was guaranteed to result in HOON and POSING. Man alive were those good times. I did have one myself, very briefly. ![](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HnkbKQayuqg/ToGFTRwFFHI/AAAAAAAAA3I/btfKbDfWtwU/s640-Ic42/S6000147.JPG) Unfortunately I lent it to a mate to wrote it off before I got to drive it. Bah. L322's are getting temptingly cheap now too. Though the hideous complexity is a bit of a turn-off. That said, a pal of mine has an L322 V8 Supercharged Revere, which (although hideously bling) is an utterly bonkers device.
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2016 23:29:38 GMT by pOG
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2016 23:31:56 GMT
|
My ideal would be my '38, but with an L322 interior ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I suggest you send her for some form of counselling or psychiatric help.........
|
|
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
|
|
|
|
|
I suggest you send her for some form of counselling or psychiatric help......... Condemned as mad for not believing everything you read on the internet? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
|
|
|
|
Smiler
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
|
|
Jan 30, 2016 23:44:59 GMT
|
Well as it currently stands, when the time to replace the daily smoker comes it will be with a RangeRover. Preferably a classic but if not then a P38.
I have been running Rover 75's for the past four years. Much derided (like the P38) but they are in fact blumin brilliant! Best old bangers I've ever had. Ultra reliable, comfy, well built (apart from the internal sill trims that I've managed to kick off both cars with my size 11 feet. And in diesel form very economical if unrefined.
|
|
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
|
|
|
|
|
AFAIK the "achilles heel" for the P38 is the BeCM as it controls everything electrical on the vehicle. Good idea in theory but in practice the unit has proven to be unreliable. If you get even a loose connection somewhere it can affect other aspects of the car that seem unrelated. I actually like the P38 and did seriously consider one as a replacement for my RRC Vogue but just couldn't take the risk of having a vehicle that was beyond DIY repair due to such complex electronics. I looked into changing air suspension to coils, having stand along modules for central locking & windows, somehow finding a way of getting the heater etc to work without the BeCM and even fitting a 300TDi engine to the ZF autobox but in the end decided simply not worth the effort and bought a 300TDi auto Disco instead. In case you didn't know the RRC and Disco chassis & running gear are identical. Even the doors are the same basic design with just slight changed to the outer skin. So if you want a RRC looks what about building your own out of a Disco and a rotten RRC ? Not impossible as people already fit Disco front panels on RRC and vice versa. The body length is different but if you chop the rear quarter off a RRC and attach it to a Disco then all you'd need then is the matching RRC roof. I've had 3 RRC - 78 two door, 88 four door Vogue, 72 two door as well as 200TDi and current 300TDi. They are all basically the same frame with different "clothes" ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
AFAIK the "achilles heel" for the P38 is the BeCM as it controls everything electrical on the vehicle. Good idea in theory but in practice the unit has proven to be unreliable. If you get even a loose connection somewhere it can affect other aspects of the car that seem unrelated. This, to an extent is true. However it is rarely the BECM itself that goes kaput and if it is, it's normally a repairable dry track inside. The main issue is, as said, all the other functions that have to 'talk' via the BECM. However, in the main, problems become a "simple" - and I use that word advisedly - trace the wiring exercise. In many cases it's only an earthing fault, dirty plug, switch or connection. The RAVE manual has a full electrical troubleshooting section to ease your life. There are also many folk now who can sort a faulty BECM anyway, so you shouldn't be afraid of them any more. Even the in extreme case of the BECM losing synchronisation with the engine ECU is often cured by plugging in a SynchMate for a couple of minutes and hey presto, your motoring again. If you don't want to lash out on one, the guy in Swindon I mentioned earlier, will post you one for a couple of days hire at 30 quid or something. Because of the myths surrounding these, I've read guys on RR.net taking of replacing transfer boxes because the lights by the shifter didn't flash and nothing happened when they selected low. I posted that I had the same and it was a dirty fuse. So, funnily enough, where the many of others! It seems the old "start with the cheap fixes first" adage goes out of the window when diagnosing a '38 and, I hate to say it, many "Specialists" seem to propagate this. The only expensive electrical item I've replaced was the fuse box, because they do deteriorate over time and, apart from an ongoing and probably simple central locking issue which requires a roundtuit, all the electrics work fine. Even the seats/mirrors and all those other little gubbins. With the Nanocom Evo, or some similar LR specific kit, diagnostics is made so much easier which, when coupled with RAVE and the vast store of information available on RR.net honestly, much of the mystery disappears.
|
|
|
|
Smiler
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
|
|
Jan 31, 2016 11:42:16 GMT
|
composimmonite - I didn't know that, I knew the Disco chassis was based on the RangeRover chassis but I didn't realise there were that many similarities. The building a composite out of the two might put me squarely in the DVLAs firing line.
I've just been looking at these LR specific diagnostics tools (Lynx & Nanocom), they're not cheap! I know they'll pay for themselves but I'm hoping not to need them often enough for them to 'pay for themselves'...
|
|
Last Edit: Jan 31, 2016 11:42:29 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
|
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2016 12:38:21 GMT
|
composimmonite - I didn't know that, I knew the Disco chassis was based on the RangeRover chassis but I didn't realise there were that many similarities. The building a composite out of the two might put me squarely in the DVLAs firing line. A Disco / RRC hybrid definitely wouldn't cause any DVLA problems as the chassis is the same with body having no bearing on identity. I must admit whilst the RRC is better looking from the rear aspect the Disco load area / side mounting door is far more practical / useful on a working vehicle.
|
|
|
|
|