Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Aug 20, 2017 17:44:44 GMT
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Although I still have a few other committments with other projects the time has come to get focused on the Strato'sI did a test today on the deflection of the old and the new. Due to the cracking and state of the 1.5" engine support beam I did expect it to deflect when loaded, I did not however expect it to deflect as much as it did and with the amount of movement I could detect just pressing it by hand it was doomed to fail from the outset. The 2" on the otherhand is so much better, and when combined with the other modifications I am pretty confident that chassis issues will be a thing of the past. 50,000 views on this thread - thanks for watching
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,391
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Aug 20, 2017 19:14:40 GMT
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Last Edit: Aug 20, 2017 19:15:08 GMT by sonus
Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
Previous BMW 325d E91LCI - sold Alfa Romeo GTV - sold Citroen AX GT - at the breakers Ford Puma 1.7 - sold Volvo V50 2.0d - sold MGB GT - wrecked by fire MG ZT 1.8T - sold VW E-golf Electric - sold Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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Aug 20, 2017 19:29:59 GMT
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^^^^^ What he said ^^^^^
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Aug 24, 2017 19:10:33 GMT
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This weekend is the Gold Cup at Oulton Park and I shall be taking along the Wednesday night Pizza and Party (workparty that is) Ginetta G32. Still a work in progress but now looking rather splendid on the new Rota's and Toyo's. This is a car I very much regret selling but I can't complain, the owner has me as a named driver and it was sold to make room for the Strato's. There you go valid reason for posting in this thread, if I really needed one. A bit different now to the photo on the Pistonheads advert when I bought it. By all acounts it goes quite well but if it rains I will be getting wet as the sunroof leaks - Who cares.
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Last Edit: Aug 26, 2017 8:28:07 GMT by Darkspeed
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Aug 26, 2017 18:36:27 GMT
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Strato'sAfter some much needed DIY and gardening to keep SHMBO happy - although to be honest cash does a far better job in that regard - and having luch whilst the Spa qualifying was on - there was a couple of hours left this afternoon to slice up some steel to get the rebuild of the lower engine cradle started. Now that looks far more purposeful, which is good as I am a firm believer that if it looks right we are 90% there. Subframe / Door bars / Seat belt mounts / Rear cage back stays and diagonal - all on the list of jobs with the subframe as well as a bit of extra steel for here and there to make it look even more right. May have to have a bit of retail therapy soon and spalsh out on two spoke suede wheel and a quick release boss.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Aug 29, 2017 21:20:43 GMT
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Limited work on the Strato's - Had a quiet weekend and went to the Gold Cup on the Monday - The G32 was great fun to take there and the 1.9 CVH is a gem. Not one of those Specialized engine tall block things but a 1.6 block with lots of work. It was going so well until I got stuck in traffic around Natwich and a weep on the clutch line drained the M/C reservoir and stuck me 2.1 miles from the owners place. QWuick version he arrived with a few tools and we nipped the union up that was leaking, bled the clutch and I did the final home stretch. Fantastic Unipower at Oulton Parked next to an equally superb Capri This evening I dug the TIG out for a bit of practice, what I should do is practice on bits of scrap and do the old laying beads thing but Mike with the G15 is building a cold air feed that doubles as a snorkel for when he has to deal with the fords on the rallies - The old KN's were a right old state from previous dunkings and this is one of those things that has two benefits and we like those. I am begining to get the hang of it but still cock up contaminating the Tungsten far too frequently - Fun practice project. Practice make perfect - and I need loads more practice. Strato's wise I am looking at the rear suspension geometry and the anti squat thats built into the lower rear wishbone suspension pick ups so I cant really do any welding works until I have that all squared.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 2, 2017 21:30:19 GMT
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Sept 2, 2017 22:01:14 GMT
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I'm wondering why you did not use CDS tube? or is it trying to look original with the box?
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,916
Club RR Member Number: 40
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How much weight do you think the extra stiffness cost ? It looks loads heavier but perhaps not as bad as it looks especially vs the improvement in stiffness. Blame nalesutol for this question ! Thanks James
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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I use CDS when it's appropriate for the application, for cages and suspension components where the extra strength and consistancy is required. For this application with an engine mounting load, beam stiffness is required and box is best for that application. Box is rubbish for torsional loads but in resisting bending loads in its two planes it's pretty good. Using CDS in this application would have provided no great additional benefit and would have had to be much thicker wall for the same function. Plus when the alloy undertray is fixed - riveting to a nice flat surface is far easier. The two large box sections at right angles going back to the bulkhead are there for extra beam support and to resist torsional loads into the main beam Weight - They are both/all 16SWG carbon steel and 2" is 33.33% more than 1.5" so it's simply 33.33% heavier - a metre of 2x2 16SWG is about 2.5KG or about another 650grams heavier than the 1.5" - If I factor that gainst the 20000 grams I took off the engine alone and the lightweight construction I am employing with other aspects of the the build it's quite acceptable when weighed against the benefits The key here is having the right parts in the right place even if they do add a bit of weight. Benefit here is that they are below the axle line. My ultimate goal is not a straight line as fast as possible as the one thing the Strato's was never designed to do is go fast in a straight line. To do that they made a much longer one. When driving one of these there is no need to go fast - everyone else slows down
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 2,113
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Sept 3, 2017 20:03:09 GMT
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I would just like to say that I really enjoy this thread, thanks.
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Sept 3, 2017 20:25:38 GMT
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Thanks for the explanation, where the original one cracked in the sill area is that a bit of a design fault by Lancia? seems a bit weak to have an engine mount beam fixed to a thin bit of steel?
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 4, 2017 19:27:01 GMT
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I would just like to say that I really enjoy this thread, thanks. Cheers, Alway nice to get a bit of feedback that there is something of interest in my waffling. Thanks for the explanation, where the original one cracked in the sill area is that a bit of a design fault by Lancia? seems a bit weak to have an engine mount beam fixed to a thin bit of steel? If any part of this car came out of the Lancia/Bertone factory I would be a very fortunate and happy man - Sadly this car came out of shed in North Yorkshire and unlike Lancia who did not make major revisions to the chassis during the 500 cars produced Litton appear to have made each one differently and this particular car is accepted to be "very" different. They did not produce that many of the "I" model and the Honda V6 made up very few of those. The story of this car is reasonably well documented in this thread and its suffice to say that the chassis has a few more than its fair share of design flaws that need to be addressed before I sign it off as being acceptable. Strato's On investigation of the anti-squat in the rear suspension it is very slight amount as the wishbone is only inclined at 2.3 degrees so I will increase this to 2.8 degrees as it is still a negligible amount and makes mounting the lower wishbone an easier task. The other aspect of the engine cradle that has come under consideration is the width/distance between the lower longitudinal members. Changing from 1" to 1.5" RHS means that either the space for the sump gets squeezed or the members need to be moved outboard which creates issues with that lower inner wishbone mount again. Loads to do.
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Sept 4, 2017 20:53:28 GMT
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Ah, yes I forgot it's not a gennie one - good for you though as it will fool most people. Carry on, I always enjoy reading all your posts.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 8, 2017 20:36:37 GMT
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Ah, yes I forgot it's not a gennie one - good for you though as it will fool most people. Carry on, I always enjoy reading all your posts. Many thanks - The Stratos replica's are still in the position of being quite rare. I have been trawling my photo archives looking at the pictures I accumulated of The Corse I rear suspension and every one is different and all of them have been modified from standard. I have also noted that although the most rearward lower wishbone pick-up is at the same height as mine the forward pick-up heights are all quite different as are the bracket arrangements. Most are Alfa V6 engines but there is a Honda V6 and a Ferrari V8 as well as a Lancia 4 pot. - Funny how modern trends have changed as many of the original replica's were based around the 2.0L Lancia twin cam and the more modern cars are 3.0L V6 minimum with many heading toward 3.2 and 3.5L supercharged and turbocharged. Taking a couple of extra days holiday to extend the weekend so hopefully get plenty of work done.... on stuff or may just mess about aimlessly tig welding stuff until I run of gas....
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 10, 2017 18:12:29 GMT
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Made up some strengthening sections for the rear. These will reinforce the most rearward lower wishbone mountings and also provide a wider section for when the new lower subframe beams are positioned a little further outboard. Measured the angle of the rear chassis section at 7.5 degrees and then transfered some calculations to cardboard templates and toop to some 1-1/2 with the hacksaw. And the outer A bit of cleaning up of the surrounding area's and it will be time for more welding. Here's a A Ferrari version And an Alfa version All different.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 11, 2017 19:34:27 GMT
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Last Edit: Sept 11, 2017 19:59:36 GMT by Darkspeed
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Sept 11, 2017 21:17:32 GMT
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Some pretty grim welding there! (not yours obviously)
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,867
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 12, 2017 8:16:12 GMT
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Some pretty grim welding there! (not yours obviously) The car has a further 3m approx of shoddy welds still left on it that I need to deal with plus there are still a few of these incomplete weld area's that will be quite a challenge due to all the paint and contaminants that will be aorund the area I will want to weld. I also have to figure out some way of cleaning out and sealing up this front box section The final big challenge on the car, which is where the 3m of poor welds are, is the side pods - these were narrowed by about an inch each side when the Hawk body was fitted - I could just grind back and put in decent welds, which would be acceptable, but I am probably going to grind the welds and then slit the seam and insert a 1" RHS to let the missing steel back in, and add some extra, that will pretty well return it to the original profile shape, even though hidden out of sight. I have some tidying up to do today and I'm considering the work involved to change the front dash area cross member from 1" to 1-1/2"
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Sept 12, 2017 9:45:59 GMT
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Have you considered having it media blasted? The best way to get a load of paint and other wibblepoo off of anything, and will generally expose any other weak areas to boot.
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