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GPS Speedo - Legalities

joem83 Posted hell of a lot Posts: 7,070	GPS Speedo - Legalities joem83 @joem83
	Dec 14, 2015 10:07:50 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	At some point in the future when (IF) my mk2 golf is on the road I would like to change the dials, as atm I don't think many of them work. I have found a gauge set (http://www.speedhut.com/customizer.i?cmd=customizekit&pid=1548) but the speedo is GPS driven, are there any legal issues with using these in the UK? Ta Joe
	1991 Mk2 Golf 1.8t 20v - Project Modus Operandi: 2) If you haven't got something constructive to say, say nothing

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composimmonite Posted a lot Posts: 4,681	GPS Speedo - Legalities composimmonite @composimmonite
	Dec 14, 2015 10:22:22 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Law states - THE ROAD VEHICLES (CONSTRUCTION AND USE) REGULATIONS 1986 (SI 1986 No. 107 SPEEDOMETERS These must be fitted to all motor vehicles registered from 1 October 1937. Speedometers must be maintained in good working order at all "material times" ie when a vehicle is used on a journey unless: (a) a defect occurs during a journey, or (b) steps are taken to have the equipment repaired or replaced as soon as possible. (Regulation 36 and EC Directive 75/443) A vehicle may be rejected at its annual test if the speedometer is not fitted, or is inoperative, is not illuminated, it has a missing or broken dial glass, etc. The requirement to fit speedometers does not extend to vehicles fitted with EU approved recording equipment (see under "Tachographs" on page 235–239). Under the law a GPS system, even if it gives an indication of speed, can't be regarded as fulfilling the legal requirements. So to answer your question a GPS speedo isn't legal. What about a tiny 52mm, legal, speedo in a pod under the dash to stay within the law whilst having the GPS item in front of you ?


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joem83 Posted hell of a lot Posts: 7,070	GPS Speedo - Legalities joem83 @joem83
	Dec 14, 2015 10:26:47 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	curse word lol. I tried finding that but had no luck lol. That is an option I suppose, which I hadn't thought of. Just wanted a nice clean set of gauges rather than having them all over the place, nothings ever easy is it lol
	1991 Mk2 Golf 1.8t 20v - Project Modus Operandi: 2) If you haven't got something constructive to say, say nothing

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Ryannn Posted a lot Posts: 2,423	GPS Speedo - Legalities Ryannn @blackbelt1990
	Dec 14, 2015 10:32:58 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 14, 2015 10:26:47 GMT joem83 said: curse word lol. I tried finding that but had no luck lol. That is an option I suppose, which I hadn't thought of. Just wanted a nice clean set of gauges rather than having them all over the place, nothings ever easy is it lol It's only every 12 months, just add and remove lolll
	www.adoequipment.com - New and refurbished parts for BMC classic cars

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composimmonite Posted a lot Posts: 4,681	GPS Speedo - Legalities composimmonite @composimmonite
	Dec 14, 2015 13:53:37 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Have "legal" speedo on a hinge so it can flip down under dash when required for MOT / Police ?.


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roccoguy Part of things Posts: 965	GPS Speedo - Legalities roccoguy @roccoguy2
	Dec 15, 2015 10:00:04 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Stick some tape over the bit that says GPS on the gauge, I can't see any other way they would be able to tell how it gets its speed signal? If it's good enough to get holed wheel arches through an mot, I'm sure it will be good enough to get a speedo through


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joem83 Posted hell of a lot Posts: 7,070	GPS Speedo - Legalities joem83 @joem83
	Dec 15, 2015 11:10:57 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Will have to find a way, they are about the best looking dials I have seen lol
	1991 Mk2 Golf 1.8t 20v - Project Modus Operandi: 2) If you haven't got something constructive to say, say nothing

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Rich Club Retro Rides Member Posts: 6,341 Club RR Member Number: 160	GPS Speedo - Legalities Rich @foxmcintyre Club Retro Rides Member 160
	Dec 15, 2015 13:29:49 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Just remove GPS from the speedo, and leave the speedo cable sans inner drive routed to the dash. Without extensive dismantling the system looks mechanically driven, and will be fine. You are seriously all overthinking this..
	Kota RC Trucks Past: XJ 121 E28 LRD1 XG30 BX MGB T25

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robdhc Part of things Posts: 198	GPS Speedo - Legalities robdhc @dino
	Dec 15, 2015 14:12:21 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 14, 2015 10:22:22 GMT composimmonite said: Law states - THE ROAD VEHICLES (CONSTRUCTION AND USE) REGULATIONS 1986 (SI 1986 No. 107 SPEEDOMETERS These must be fitted to all motor vehicles registered from 1 October 1937. Speedometers must be maintained in good working order at all "material times" ie when a vehicle is used on a journey unless: (a) a defect occurs during a journey, or (b) steps are taken to have the equipment repaired or replaced as soon as possible. (Regulation 36 and EC Directive 75/443) A vehicle may be rejected at its annual test if the speedometer is not fitted, or is inoperative, is not illuminated, it has a missing or broken dial glass, etc. The requirement to fit speedometers does not extend to vehicles fitted with EU approved recording equipment (see under "Tachographs" on page 235–239). Under the law a GPS system, even if it gives an indication of speed, can't be regarded as fulfilling the legal requirements. So to answer your question a GPS speedo isn't legal. What about a tiny 52mm, legal, speedo in a pod under the dash to stay within the law whilst having the GPS item in front of you ? I realise I am most likely being incredibly thick, but I can't see where it says that a GPS speedo is illegal? Just because it's using GPS to show speed rather than cable / whatevermoderncarsusethesedays I don't see how it's no longer a speedo? Thanks, Rob


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Iain Part of things Posts: 351	GPS Speedo - Legalities Iain @iainel
	Dec 15, 2015 14:59:14 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Surely driving it on the brake rollers and the speedo not showing any speed is a reason for failure?


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sarkie83 Part of things Posts: 866	GPS Speedo - Legalities sarkie83 @sarkie83
	Dec 15, 2015 16:57:18 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 15, 2015 14:59:14 GMT Iain said: Surely driving it on the brake rollers and the speedo not showing any speed is a reason for failure? Testing the operation of the speedo is not part of the MOT. It just has to look like its operational. Legality of having a working speedo is a different matter :-)
	Mk3 Capri 1.6L retrorides thread If it doesn't rattle or shake; it's fallen off.

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dodgerover Posted hell of a lot "These days turned out nothing like I had planned" Posts: 5,921	GPS Speedo - Legalities dodgerover @dodgerover
	Dec 15, 2015 19:06:37 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	There's no definition of a speedometer so a dedicated one relying on GPS satalites should be fine. A GPS navigation unit that also showed speed would be questionable unless it was permenantly fixed. Wireless speedo on a motorcycle is fine
	Mk2 lwb transit work van retrorides.proboards.com/thread/159214/new-work-1985-transit-update Dodge 50 (247CUi) powered Range Rover (resting), WANTED Aussie Valiant

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colnerov Posted a lot Posts: 2,879	GPS Speedo - Legalities colnerov @colnerov
	Dec 15, 2015 20:02:37 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Hi, a lot of car nowadays get their speed signal from ABS wheel sensors so there is no direct mechanical link with the wheels. So it could be argued there's no difference to a GPS signal providing the information, only the distance. How accurate it is is another matter because GPS only registers lateral or horizontal speed and can't be accurate when going up or down a hill. The issue with the MOT comes down to whether there is a speedo actually present. They don't or can't test its operation. So as long as there is what looks like a speedo then that should be enough. Colin


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Deleted Posts: 0	GPS Speedo - LegalitiesDeleted @Deleted
	Dec 15, 2015 22:39:44 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	A GPS speedo will pass an MOT as the speedo itself is not tested.


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galooph Part of things Posts: 20	GPS Speedo - Legalities galooph @galooph
	Dec 15, 2015 23:00:21 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Just looking at the documentation for speedometers for the IVA test at www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass#speedometers There, it says "Speedometers that operate on GPS or bicycle or racing instruments are not allowed."


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colnerov Posted a lot Posts: 2,879	GPS Speedo - Legalities colnerov @colnerov
	Dec 16, 2015 0:27:02 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 15, 2015 23:00:21 GMT galooph said: Just looking at the documentation for speedometers for the IVA test at www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass#speedometers There, it says "Speedometers that operate on GPS or bicycle or racing instruments are not allowed." Hi, That's more about construction and use compliance than MOTs. Colin


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Rich Club Retro Rides Member Posts: 6,341 Club RR Member Number: 160	GPS Speedo - Legalities Rich @foxmcintyre Club Retro Rides Member 160
	Dec 16, 2015 7:59:26 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 15, 2015 23:00:21 GMT galooph said: Just looking at the documentation for speedometers for the IVA test at www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-cars-help-to-get-a-pass#speedometers There, it says "Speedometers that operate on GPS or bicycle or racing instruments are not allowed." The car isn't being IVA tested. The long and the short of it- no. It's not 'legal' Will you get 'caught'? Highly Unlikely.
	Kota RC Trucks Past: XJ 121 E28 LRD1 XG30 BX MGB T25

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MrSpeedy East Midlands www.vintagediesels.co.uk Posts: 4,791	GPS Speedo - Legalities MrSpeedy @mrspeedy
	Dec 16, 2015 10:25:04 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	A 'mate' of mine hasn't had a working speedo for about 4 years now. Remarkably 'he' hasn't got nabbed speeding either! Lack of mileage at MOT time is easily explained by the oddometer being broken
	1969 Triumph Vitesse WIP retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=62127 1962 Ford Thames 400E Turbo diesel retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=62145 1993 Mercedes S124 300TD

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composimmonite Posted a lot Posts: 4,681	GPS Speedo - Legalities composimmonite @composimmonite
	Dec 16, 2015 12:03:42 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	In mid 70's a mate got stopped for speeding in his 13/60 Herald convertible. Officer asked him if he realised what speed he was doing which he replied speedo wasn't working. Officer reached under the dash and found cable disconnected and mate then admitted it was to stop miles being clocked up as already higher than average. He got done for speeding and an additional charge relating to the disconnected speedo (can't remember the exact offence) !


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Iain Part of things Posts: 351	GPS Speedo - Legalities Iain @iainel
	Dec 16, 2015 16:08:10 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Dec 15, 2015 16:57:18 GMT sarkie83 said: Dec 15, 2015 14:59:14 GMT Iain said: Surely driving it on the brake rollers and the speedo not showing any speed is a reason for failure? Testing the operation of the speedo is not part of the MOT. It just has to look like its operational. Legality of having a working speedo is a different matter :-) If you're driving at 10mph on brake rollers and it's reading 0mph, then that to me would look NOT operational.


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