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Dec 10, 2015 19:52:17 GMT
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trouble is people do believe they can slap it on their rotten arches and its job done
yes it turns the rust black, but scratch at it and its still red rust underneath , i wont get into a fight over it but i really don't buy into it , a coat of diy store paint would seal out the air and moisture and slow it down as well but i don't reccomend that as a cure
for the bit of rust in a sill job , i would drown it in a decent cavity and hope for the best
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Dec 10, 2015 20:07:27 GMT
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With out killing the rust first ?
Th O.P is suggesting what i suggested anyway , clean off with a wire wheel , then treat with rust killer , belt and braces so to speak . If you just paint it its more than likely just to come back .
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my point is it has not killed the rust as such , its made the top black thats all
scratch at it and the rust is still underneath working its way down into the panel
then if the user has chosen the right primer /top coat its comprimised becuase its not going onto bare steel
ive got an old rusty panel in the garden i tried all sorts of treatments and primers on , the ones that lasted are epoxy primer and rust ecapsulator
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Dec 11, 2015 10:12:31 GMT
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Yes, the problem is how far down the stuff penetrates while performing the conversion. My opinion is you need to do the very best to remove the rust, then if there are remaining areas that you can't do anything about, paint on the converter and cross fingers. The problem with rust is you can't tell how deep it is, until you get to the bottom of it.
During the rebuild of the bodyshell you see to the left, I've tried a few different things. Citric acid is very good, and provides the same kind of result as someone posted earlier for Evaporust. It also looks the same and acts the same as Deox C, but Citric acid is available quite cheaply in powder form on eBay, dilute it 10% into water and soak parts in it, come up lovely.
I've used Milkstone Remover, which is available from agricultural suppliers for around £12/gallon, again to soak stuff in. This has produced some good results, though I suspect not quite as good as the citric acid. When you're using different items for the comparison it's a bit hard to be decisive. But for £12, you can make far more 10% Citric solution than a couple of gallons (assuming diluting the milkstone remover 50/50).
For painting on, I've used phDown, which is a product sold for hydroponics. It works well, sometimes I dilute it, sometimes I don't, but always wear gloves. I believe that this, and Milkstone remover, are both phosphoric acid-based products, so act in a similar way. phDown is a lot dearer, says "contains 86% phosphoric acid", but I never found out if that means that 86% of the bottle is pure phosphoric acid, or that it contains some 86%-pure acid. You do need to be quite patient though - I've done sections on my tailgate repair where I've run over the rust with the grinder / wire brush combo, then painted the acid on, agitated it, rub with small wire brush, repeat until clean, and it's taken a day to get the area clean. Obviously you do other things while it's working, but it's not a quick fix. It can get into quite deep pitting and clean the area nicely though.
I've also tried electrolytic rust removal, this again works pretty well but really needs to be stuff you can immerse, so fine for suspension bits but not so good for body parts still attached to the shell. I've read about ways to handle attached pieces but never tried them.
Another way is with these small hand-held spot blast guns, available from Aldi periodically for a tenner or so. These work quite well, my two pieces of advice there would be (a) get some foam to act as a better seal between the blaster and the panel, the supplied nozzles don't seal well, expect to replace the foam quite regularly; and (b) get some better blast media. I bought some silicon-free media from eBay for a different blaster, but some in the spot blaster and it made it work much better than the stuff that came with it.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,789
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Dec 11, 2015 11:27:07 GMT
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We've been using the Bilt Hamber rust converter for years, and despite some peoples opinions it does work. IF you use it exactly as directed by the manufacturers.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:02:30 GMT
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i'd also go with remover rather than converter. Remove as much as possible manually then something like Deox Gel or Phosphoric acid it until any remaining rust is gone. Decent Epoxy primer to finish. If you do use epoxy make sure you fully clean off any phosphoric acid properly before priming.
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1970 Porsche 911E 2002 Porsche Boxster S 2002 Peugeot Partner 1.9sdi
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Dec 12, 2015 18:58:07 GMT
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Bilthammer hydrate 80 is the only product I've had success with. But total removal is best option.
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1964 VW Beetle 1986 VW Golf GL 1990 Toyota Carina II
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dikkehemaworst
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,618
Club RR Member Number: 16
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Rust converter-which one?dikkehemaworst
@dikkehemaworst
Club Retro Rides Member 16
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Dec 21, 2015 13:48:38 GMT
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I, ve cleaned my inner arches with a wire cubbrush on the grinder and then i used Rx 2 +RX5 + RX10. Exellent stuff and you can get it mixed in a couple of RAL colours. i did the whole underside in chassis black color and after 10 years , she still looks perfect. But i have to say it's noy our daily. Only for summerfun. On our last old daily banger i always used owatrol. i got that from my brother in law who works as an engineer on the ferry from rotterdam to harwich and this is what they use on the ship to keep the rust at bay. And if it's good enough for a ship in salty water , it's good enough for my car.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:02:06 GMT
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I did an experiment with Vactan on a old rusty wheel, used a wire knot wheel on my angle grinder to remove the loose rust first then painted on the Vactan, that was last year and the said rusty wheel has been left outside by my shed since, my dog often uses it as a latrine but it's still a shiny black/blue colour,
I used Vactan when I worked at the Met police vehicle repair centre ( Babcock international ) on the old Mercedes Sprinter riot vans, the MOD use it too,
As above if the rust is cleaned up first it's good gear, if you clean up and find the rust has eaten it's way through cut it out and replace with new metal,
I bought mine trough the supplier but have Seen it on eBay,
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MK2 Cortina Estate
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Rust converter-which one?Mercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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Dec 23, 2015 22:21:15 GMT
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Used fortress bought from b&q on the escort ,never used it before but seems to have done a good job
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1989 Sierra sapphire 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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gazz81
Part of things
Posts: 842
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Dec 24, 2015 18:07:11 GMT
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I did an experiment with Vactan on a old rusty wheel, used a wire knot wheel on my angle grinder to remove the loose rust first then painted on the Vactan, that was last year and the said rusty wheel has been left outside by my shed since, my dog often uses it as a latrine but it's still a shiny black/blue colour, I used Vactan when I worked at the Met police vehicle repair centre ( Babcock international ) on the old Mercedes Sprinter riot vans, the MOD use it too, As above if the rust is cleaned up first it's good gear, if you clean up and find the rust has eaten it's way through cut it out and replace with new metal, I bought mine trough the supplier but have Seen it on eBay, I have also had a reasonable amount of success with Vactan, it kept my ageing LDV convoy from disappearing back into the ground!
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