Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 22, 2015 13:52:24 GMT
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Hi,
I've just put a second hand 1.6 in a friends Polo and we are having problems; at cold idle, we have 60psi of oil pressure, but when the engine is thoroughly warm it falls to just 15psi at idle.
The oil is 10W40 semi synthetic. Would it be worth trying some 10W50? I know it's not an ideal 'fix' but the car needs to be running properly by the end of the week!
Thanks
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Jun 22, 2015 14:21:55 GMT
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15 psi when hot isn't disasterous. What's it idling at and how does the pressure show when you give it some rpm?
Pressure measurement is the resistance to flow, you can increase the pressure with a 'thicker' oil but you're not necessarily getting more oil round the engine.
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 22, 2015 14:23:27 GMT
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Pressure rises fairly healthily when revved to 2500rpn, about 25psi when hot. Not great but atleast it rises!
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 22, 2015 21:11:03 GMT
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So I changed to 20w50 oil and it was better for a little while, but as soon as the engine gets properly warm the pressure drops to 5psi no matter what the revs are doing.
Looks like a new pump is needed.
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Jun 22, 2015 21:23:17 GMT
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New oil pump......
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 985
Club RR Member Number: 13
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Low oil pressure when hotferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
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Check the prv, its spring and seat first. But it is probably worn bearings. What's the mileage?
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 23, 2015 13:28:25 GMT
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How would worn bearings cause low pressure?
I've just got the new pump and all the backlash/clearances feel exactly the same as the old one! It's odd how the pressure suddenly drops when hot.
Thanks
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Jun 23, 2015 14:31:37 GMT
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Hi, as said in the second post 'pressure is resistance to flow'. The oil pump produces flow of oil, the narrow gap between the surfaces at the bearings offer resistance. When the bearings wear the gap increases so less resistance = less pressure. With heat comes expansion and bigger gap, heat also alters the viscosity of the oil despite the stabilisers and modifiers in it.
Colin
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Jun 23, 2015 18:17:33 GMT
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Is the engine getting a bit too hot? this would thin the oil. As mentioned check the pressure relief valve. I pressume you changed the oil filter as well as oil. If your pump is good, you must consider that the bearings are worn.
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 23, 2015 23:08:36 GMT
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Thanks for all the replies fellas.
I measured every possible tolerance/clearance between the new and old oil pumps and the old one doesn't seem worn at all!
So I cracked on and changed the Main Bearings and Big Ends (engine and crank still in the car, might I add) so hopefully it'll all be fine when running tomorrow.
The old shells were bad, with scoring and heavy wear. Apparently the oil strainer had blocked with excess silicone a little while ago and it looks like the shells ran dry (not as bad is it could have been though). The crank was still smooth and had no scoring so it looks like I'll get away with it.
I'll update tomorrow, thanks again guys.
Fungus
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Last Edit: Jun 23, 2015 23:08:52 GMT by Fungus
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 23, 2015 23:10:46 GMT
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Here's the worst Big end and the worst Main Bearing The big ends seem to be the worst, and the engine was a bit tappy beforehand. I assumed this was lifters but it looks like it might have been slight rod-rattle too.
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Jun 24, 2015 10:48:21 GMT
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That will certainly not help the oil pressure. It's a common misconception how oil pressure is maintained in an engine - if the internal tolerances are out by even a small degree the pressure drops because the resistance to flow is decreased. Hopefully that will sort it for you.
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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Jun 24, 2015 23:19:14 GMT
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Just got in from a 40 mile test drive, pressure is bang on spec! It used to get to a certain point and just drop to 5psi no matter what, but now it sits at about 35-40psi cruising around, 12-15psi at idle and 30psi at 2000rpm So it was the shells all along... Glad I sorted it properly though, thanks to the folks on here for the advice! Thanks again, Fungus
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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That still sounds a little low to me, I wouldn't be surprised if the crank didn't have corresponding wear. Hopefully you have extended the usable life of the engine enough to get a couple more years of use out of it though.
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Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
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The crank really didn't seem bad at all, no scoring that I could feel.
The Haynes manual specifies 30psi at 2000rpm with the engine at full operating temp, which it now has.
Hopefully it lasts!
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