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Jun 10, 2019 14:16:42 GMT
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Good news and bad news..
...So the thing idles like a limo. After getting it all bolted back with the new cam, I just set the Fitech back to default, re-entered the engine data by telling it it had a "1" on the performance cam level and hit start. Sweet. 15 inches of vacuum and all is wonderful in my life.
For a few minutes...
The engine runs right up to 2000 rpm and hits a brick wall. It is like if the brakes were locked on if I were on the ground and I was running up against the torque converter, but I am not, I am on axle stands with the tires off the groundand the car is in park.
At first, I thought it was a Fitech thing. And messed around with fuel settings and checking fuel pressure and injector duty cycle and Pulse With and fuel pump PWM and what not. All the time thinking "Odd, it had this same issue when I ran the Holley to fire the engine and do the first drive".
While taking a break and scratching my head, a buddy walks in and ask why fluid is pouring out under the car? The AOD was ejecting transmission fluid from every possible source: front and rear seals, pan gasket ( especially the rear DS corner) and speedometer drive. The only place it did NOT leak was out the dipstick tube.
So now I am wondering, I was looking at pulling the engine again after I got it running properly, because the front seal was leaking and there was some evidence of pan leakage. With the current development I wonder if the seal is really an issue or is there a way that this thing has runaway internal pressure? I know very little about the finer points of AOD transmissin internal controls, like nothing if I am being honest. Technically, from an AOD design standpoint, how could that even happen? What regulates internal ( lline?) pressure in an AOD gearbox? Is it worth finding a core and just pulling the valve body off and swapping it in hopes that what is wrong is some assembly error from the guy that rebuilt it? Maybe he misse one of the 500 ball bearings that live in the rat maze?( that was a few years ago and I doubt I would get relief from the builder if I took it back other than "That will be another 2K".
Is this a sign from God that the wife needs to learn to drive a T5?
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Jun 10, 2019 16:01:03 GMT
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I don't know a lot about these gearboxes but doesn't the pressure in the gearbox vary with the position of the throttle via a cable connected to the throttle linkage? eg more throttle = more pressure in the gearbox? Is that set up correctly?
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Jun 10, 2019 16:12:26 GMT
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I don't know a lot about these gearboxes but doesn't the pressure in the gearbox vary with the position of the throttle via a cable connected to the throttle linkage? eg more throttle = more pressure in the gearbox? Is that set up correctly? The "Throttle Valve" or TV cable apportions the main pressure (aka line pressure) to the gearbox to suit the driving conditions. So at idle the car is not fighting the brakes or loading the clutches. As the throttle is opened, it apportions more pressure in order to deal with the demands for more force on the clutches and to determine when to shift gears. The TV cable needs to be adjusted such that it synchronized to match the idle and full throttle position of the carburator/Efi linkage. What I am seeing seems like the main pressure run amok. I am not well enough versed in the AOD to know how exactly this is generated or governed, so kind of at a loss to where to start. It was never my intention to become an automatic gearbox fluent human being. I don't particularly care for them but it had to be hence why I paid dearly to have this one rebuilt. Hoping that it is something manageable because the funds for another rebuild are not there. |
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Jun 10, 2019 16:18:01 GMT
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I avoid autos whenever I can, a black art! can you not disconnect the throttle valve cable and set the pressure to minimum just for testing? or am I barking up the wrong tree?!!
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Jun 10, 2019 18:51:40 GMT
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do you have the trans cooler all connected up properly? have you checked the filters and pickup pipe?
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Jun 11, 2019 18:20:27 GMT
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Pull the trans off/backwards to disengage the pump, block rear of engine to support & run it again.
If all is well then the 'wall' you are hitting is hydraulic lock in the trans. Possibly the converter is not fully home in the pump but I don't know enough about AOD's to say. Hate to say it but you may have killed the trans - lets hope not.
I'd be having a chat with the local trans repair shop for pointers/advice.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:25:42 GMT
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Going to see if I can conjure up a 0-300 psi gauge so that I can check the line pressure. Will also check the TV pressure at that point.
Needing a new box might shelve the project till next spring while I recover financially.
While I don't expect any support from the shop that rebuilt the box some time ago, I might be able to get some insight into what might be the issue. Will only call them after I get the main line pressure as it seems like a pertinent data point for diagnosis.
Pete
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Well, after talking to the person who rebuilt the box and then doing a bit of measuring of my own, it seems I paid $1800 for a can of spray paint.
The re-builders advice was to "Check the relief valve".
I did that and I also checked the main line pressure. this would be the pressure that the re-builder told me not to bother with... I don't know what the actual pressure is, cause it bent the needle on my 0-300 psi gauge.
Pulling the valve body off, there are several valves that are stuck or sticky and the gasket is blown out in several critical locations. this allows fluid to short circuit the valve body maze and make for schizophrenic behavior.
Box may or may not be irreparably damaged as a consequence.
Live and learn.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,360
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
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Jun 12, 2019 10:57:46 GMT
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Jun 12, 2019 12:22:57 GMT
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So, clean sticky valves, refit with new gasket and see what happens?
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jun 12, 2019 14:25:25 GMT
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So, clean sticky valves, refit with new gasket and see what happens? Nick That is the plan. Can tell for sure it ate up some of the clutch pack life based on contents of fluid drained. On the plus side, I now know a lot more about the mysteries of automatic gearboxes than I did before. Not that I ever wanted to know anything about them. |
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Jun 12, 2019 15:15:10 GMT
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That's the trouble wqith auto boxes. They work great for almost ever, but if they do go wrong they take the whole box out in minutes  Manuals can go wrong and still work noisily etc. Good luck with the sticky valves & gasket, certainly worth a try. What was the trans fluid colour/smell like? |
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Jun 12, 2019 16:21:47 GMT
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That's the trouble wqith auto boxes. They work great for almost ever, but if they do go wrong they take the whole box out in minutes Manuals can go wrong and still work noisily etc. Good luck with the sticky valves & gasket, certainly worth a try. What was the trans fluid colour/smell like? Seen a lot worse for smell and color, but certainly some clutch material in there. Was pretty much trying to hold back the full output of the engine. This could have ended in disaster in that when I started the engine to take the pressure reading, the car was in Park and the back wheels were spinning. That should not be possible. fortunately I had just taken the wheel rear wheels off of ramps and the car was supported in the air by 4 axle stands, elsewise with the rear tires on the ramps, it would have tried to drive the car off the front axle stands. |
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Last Edit: Jun 12, 2019 16:23:07 GMT by bjornagn
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Jun 12, 2019 16:36:22 GMT
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I hate it when you pay good money to have something fixed/rebuilt/repaired and it turns out to be junk, feeling your pain!!
I have no doubt with your ability its going to turn out fine even if you have to repair the box yourself!
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Jun 13, 2019 18:14:20 GMT
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Valve body autopsy. Keep in mind that this was assembled by someone who does this for a living.  Four of the valves were sticky or stuck. #1 would be main pressure. TV and Converter relief valves were reversed. They are slightly but significantly different. #6 check ball ( reverse pressure relief) was missing altogether. The paper gasket that goes over this maze as not properly aligned. The dowel points were oblonged out of round. This caused several blow-outs when combined with the high pressure. Local transmission shop was nice enough to donate a new check ball and I have a shift kit with the remainder of the parts to re-assemble, so that is what I will do. I don't have a lot of hope that the internals are not cooked, but not much to lose. |
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Jun 13, 2019 19:31:24 GMT
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if the tranny is lunched , i would delivery it back to their shop...around midnight....through the window! but hey , thats just me!
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating
'80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip
'97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Jun 14, 2019 13:05:58 GMT
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We put our faith and trust into a unit like this with one of the big reasons to rule it out as a problem. When it gets ugly, we look everywhere but at the new or rebuilt parts. Its a credit to you that you found it so "soon". I hope the tranny has some life left in it. "Hello, Better Business Bureau?" I'm not really the type, but calling them out (maybe after giving them a chance to make good) on social medial tends to have the greatest effect these days. That kind of work is unacceptable. just unacceptable.
rant over.
JP
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Jun 14, 2019 13:51:56 GMT
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if the tranny is lunched , i would delivery it back to their shop...around midnight....through the window! but hey , thats just me! We put our faith and trust into a unit like this with one of the big reasons to rule it out as a problem. When it gets ugly, we look everywhere but at the new or rebuilt parts. Its a credit to you that you found it so "soon". I hope the tranny has some life left in it. "Hello, Better Business Bureau?" I'm not really the type, but calling them out (maybe after giving them a chance to make good) on social medial tends to have the greatest effect these days. That kind of work is unacceptable. just unacceptable. rant over. JP I love direct action but, as my suppliers are a way away, I've used Twitter to great (read, immediate) effect when wrong parts were supplied and I was getting ignored on email and phone. Eee, 93 years old and hitting social media!  Shame this is holding up the enjoyment of just driving. |
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Jun 14, 2019 14:21:51 GMT
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I did contact the shop who did the work. He is a one man shop that does work for a lot of the drag cars in this area and hence the recommendation from several that "He is your man". Cash job. Two hour drive from home.
When I called to ask if he had any idea what might be causing fluid to spew out of the unit, he said it was a long time ago, he had no recollection of who I was and that who knows what might have gone on during the time frame; "All I can suggest is to check the vent".
Fact of the matter is I would not take it back even if he did offer. The mistakes show a lack of basic knowledge and skills for this kind of work.
Except for the missing checkball, I would have had this buttoned up on Weds and known what I am facing, but now it is killing me that I wont be able to get at this until Sunday.
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