dw1603
Part of things
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Posts: 591
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Mar 10, 2015 13:09:07 GMT
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The only winner here is the Daily Mail who likely stole this story from another publication, didn't credit them and ramped up the wording to make a minor issue seem enormous. Why do people keep linking to Daily Mail articles? It's a trash mag and nobody but idiots take it seriously. Doesn't matter a dam(n) who the DM stole the story from or how they bigged it up. What does matter is that the Police and the courts have crucified this guy for being a car enthusiast. Yes, he had some dodgy tyres but dangerous driving? This is something we all need to take very seriously.
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Mar 10, 2015 13:21:26 GMT
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I wonder what made the Police stop him in the first place seeing he was well under the speed limit ? Perhaps they had seen him drifting or rear wheel scrubbing due to a welded diff etc. What I'm saying is that the paper gives just part of the story.
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Mar 10, 2015 13:31:24 GMT
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Hi, People, take heed of this!!
Without the obvious offences of bald tyres and defective brakes the rest of it is just driving a tatty car about. But because of that everything else gets lumped in with it to justify their actions. He was done for dangerous driving but they don't specify any particular offence and he wasn't speeding, so are they saying it's his attitude to the whole business of driving a car? That is very shaky ground to prosecute on, as VIP says any decent lawyer would have dealt with that, was he representing himself by any chance? Is the Daily Mail reporting accurately? Probably not, but mud sticks.
A lot of modding fashions push the boundaries of the law. Stretched tyres being an example they are within the letter of the law but not the spirit. The two gents discussing DEZ,s rod are indicative of some peoples attitude to modding. I'm sure the vehicle is well built but is not what they like or expect to see and assume the worst. Ratting is particularly vulnerable to this.
It's all well and good driving "work in progress" cars about but make sure you are squeaky clean with everything legal. We all joke about nuns and kittens but the underlying meaning should not be ignored, at your peril.
Colin
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Mar 10, 2015 13:42:37 GMT
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Bald tyres is the issue here IMHO? They are the only contact between the car and the road....only an idiot would chance bald tyres. Surely an MOT would have brought that up...advisory 'close to the legal limit' generally comes up a couple of years before they actually need changing. (Again IMHO) he was obviously driving in a manner that brought attention to himself...a dented, scratched car with stretch tyres and after market arches doesn't generally cause a pull by the plod ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Mar 10, 2015 13:58:56 GMT
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We can all defend the guy and butter this up as much as we want but deep down we all know the car's a shed and shouldn't be on the road. He clearly knew the wheels were too wide as he's screwed on some tatty rubber/plastic arches. The Daily Mail is a rag as others have said and like the rest of the press will blow any story out of proportion to sell papers. However, the fact that he was comfortable driving on "balding" tyres means he doesn't care about his, his passengers or other road users safety so a ban is correct in my opinion. Had the tyres been the only issue and the rest of the car was in good condition then yes it would've been harsh, but the guy clearly doesn't care what he takes onto the road so deserves everything he gets. Let's just hope his stupidity and thoughtlessness doesn't set a precedent for all the conscientious drivers here. Dave Where has anyone defended this guy? I'm just worried this will send fear to the heart of the daily mail reader so next time someone running a retro with slight stretch and running low pulls along side them at the traffic lights they will fear them the same as when they see a brown person with a big beard... Eventually laws will be passed around this, same as they spread fear around 'terrorism' and off the back of that our perceived freedoms are trampled on yet more, even though the real chance of getting blown up in the UK is very very slim to zero. If this guy was a jerk or not isnt the debate, the debate is "look mainstream hate rag reporting on car modding like we are 1% biker gang" I run a modded retro, but hey I'm not THAT guy..... its FWD i cant drift anyway! lol.
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Last Edit: Mar 10, 2015 14:01:51 GMT by classof82: 2
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fogey
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,599
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Mar 10, 2015 14:51:18 GMT
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Looks a good fun car for the track and for drifting.. . . but . . . It shouldn't be on the public highway with those tyres and taking it on the road was totally irresponsible and selfish. It is this sort of thing that brings our hobby into disrepute and gives us all a bad name so this chap hasn't done any of us any favours so I don't see the need to feel sorry for him. Much better to keep within the law and enjoy the relative freedom that we have when modding / using our cars ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Curtis
Part of things
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Posts: 622
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Mar 10, 2015 14:54:38 GMT
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Managed to speak to the guy on bookface, and find his story as it happened on his newsfeed. Looks like he's a genuinely decent bloke and got properly shafted. The car was siezed in August, he was given it back (3 days late) in September. The sentence didn't come until last week and the article was posted within a few days, him having no idea of it. According to his status on the cars return from VOSA; "Handbrake doesn't work on 1 wheel, 3 tyres, Back two arches because they're flared (just need the rivet arches on) And a horn wiring in, That's it!" When sentenced, he "was charged with dangerous driving, I got a 12 month driving ban and ordered to do an extended retest before I get my license back, 80 hours community service, £360 fines / fees, For having an insured, tax and mot'd car...." There was a lot of hassle with the car, he was given no details on how to get it back, when he enquired there was no paperwork or any trace of it, he eventually got it 3 days after he was allowed to take it and was charged for the daily storage. While I don't condone the dead tyres, I think he got off really badly here.
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Driving: Shitbox Honda S-MX
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Mar 10, 2015 14:59:25 GMT
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. He clearly knew the wheels were too wide as he's screwed on some tatty rubber/plastic arches. . Dave What a stupid comment. Please tell me where in the Law it states this is not allowed? By putting the plastic arches on the car he was at least making sure they did protrude the bodywork...which is allowed. I suppose I am in the same boat then as I have these "Tatty Rubber/Plastic Arches" bolted to my car! The point is not one of a legal nature, more a bodgit nature. If you're going to modify your car at least do it properly and in my opinion he hasn't. I'm sure yours are done very well ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Despite the flared arches the wheels still stick out past the body, which is illegal so not a stupid comment. BUT, his tyres were bald! end of! Dave
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Mar 10, 2015 15:01:59 GMT
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We can all defend the guy and butter this up as much as we want but deep down we all know the car's a shed and shouldn't be on the road. He clearly knew the wheels were too wide as he's screwed on some tatty rubber/plastic arches. The Daily Mail is a rag as others have said and like the rest of the press will blow any story out of proportion to sell papers. However, the fact that he was comfortable driving on "balding" tyres means he doesn't care about his, his passengers or other road users safety so a ban is correct in my opinion. Had the tyres been the only issue and the rest of the car was in good condition then yes it would've been harsh, but the guy clearly doesn't care what he takes onto the road so deserves everything he gets. Let's just hope his stupidity and thoughtlessness doesn't set a precedent for all the conscientious drivers here. Dave Where has anyone defended this guy? I'm just worried this will send fear to the heart of the daily mail reader so next time someone running a retro with slight stretch and running low pulls along side them at the traffic lights they will fear them the same as when they see a brown person with a big beard... Eventually laws will be passed around this, same as they spread fear around 'terrorism' and off the back of that our perceived freedoms are trampled on yet more, even though the real chance of getting blown up in the UK is very very slim to zero. If this guy was a jerk or not isnt the debate, the debate is "look mainstream hate rag reporting on car modding like we are 1% biker gang" I run a modded retro, but hey I'm not THAT guy..... its FWD i cant drift anyway! lol. Jeez loads of people have come to his defence here. Dunno why I bother commenting on these. There is more to this than any of us know so no point speculating and getting upset over it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Dave
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Mar 10, 2015 15:10:06 GMT
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Managed to speak to the guy on bookface, and find his story as it happened on his newsfeed. Looks like he's a genuinely decent bloke and got properly shafted. The car was siezed in August, he was given it back (3 days late) in September. The sentence didn't come until last week and the article was posted within a few days, him having no idea of it. According to his status on the cars return from VOSA; "Handbrake doesn't work on 1 wheel, 3 tyres, Back two arches because they're flared (just need the rivet arches on) And a horn wiring in, That's it!" When sentenced, he "was charged with dangerous driving, I got a 12 month driving ban and ordered to do an extended retest before I get my license back, 80 hours community service, £360 fines / fees, For having an insured, tax and mot'd car...." There was a lot of hassle with the car, he was given no details on how to get it back, when he enquired there was no paperwork or any trace of it, he eventually got it 3 days after he was allowed to take it and was charged for the daily storage. While I don't condone the dead tyres, I think he got off really badly here. Do we know if he had any previous points? Because if he'd already got three points then the tyres alone are enough to get him banned, right? I'm struggling to have too much sympathy for him, if you're driving a car that looks like that the least you should be doing is checking you've got enough meat on the tyres. The Police aren't daft, they see an old BMW looking like that and they know what you get up to, the first thing they're going for is the back tyres and if they're bald then expect to be bent over. I'm no angel, I've driven cars at times that aren't 100% but I'd have been the first to hold my hands up if I was pulled because it's a risk you take. The punishment does sound fairly hefty but part of me thinks we haven't heard the full story somehow. In terms of the legality of the other stuff that people are going on about I don't see it being an issue as long as you're aware of the law and can defend that point. If it's legal, it's legal, simple as that.
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Curtis
Part of things
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Posts: 622
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Mar 10, 2015 15:14:10 GMT
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WillCarter Nah his licence was completely clean from what I can tell, he accepted all liability for the tyres, and I agree whole heartedly, it was bloody stupid to let them get to that point. What I don't like is how they appear to have lobbed the book at him, most notably for 'dangerous driving' with his pregnant sister in the car.
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Driving: Shitbox Honda S-MX
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Mar 10, 2015 15:16:56 GMT
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Where has anyone defended this guy? I'm just worried this will send fear to the heart of the daily mail reader so next time someone running a retro with slight stretch and running low pulls along side them at the traffic lights they will fear them the same as when they see a brown person with a big beard... Eventually laws will be passed around this, same as they spread fear around 'terrorism' and off the back of that our perceived freedoms are trampled on yet more, even though the real chance of getting blown up in the UK is very very slim to zero. If this guy was a jerk or not isnt the debate, the debate is "look mainstream hate rag reporting on car modding like we are 1% biker gang" I run a modded retro, but hey I'm not THAT guy..... its FWD i cant drift anyway! lol. Jeez loads of people have come to his defence here. Dunno why I bother commenting on these. There is more to this than any of us know so no point speculating and getting upset over it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Dave Where? genuine question Dave as i cant see anyone suggesting bald tyres is not a bad thing. What worries me is the notion that people who mod a car even close to looking like this i.e. arches etc are 1 percenters... I also don't like the sneery stuff about how much the car cost, i know Daily Mail is obssesed with worth but to get that angle is unfair as bangernomics is a fine way to travel, not everyone wants to pretend their status is better than it is by paying for a car every month on the never never....... did i say i hated the daily mail and all its readers..which includes my late Grandma AND my Mum!! (I love my Mum but she knows i hate her for reading that rag)
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Mar 10, 2015 15:19:10 GMT
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WillCarter Nah his licence was completely clean from what I can tell, he accepted all liability for the tyres, and I agree whole heartedly, it was bloody stupid to let them get to that point. What I don't like is how they appear to have lobbed the book at him, most notably for 'dangerous driving' with his pregnant sister in the car. I think it's one of those things that we would need to hear the full story then. The Police can't just say he was driving dangerously if he wasn't, they'd need some kind of proof or evidence. You don't get done for dangerous driving for having a a couple of door cards missing whatever the article is trying to make out.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:22:18 GMT
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Managed to speak to the guy on bookface, and find his story as it happened on his newsfeed. Looks like he's a genuinely decent bloke and got properly shafted. The car was siezed in August, he was given it back (3 days late) in September. The sentence didn't come until last week and the article was posted within a few days, him having no idea of it. According to his status on the cars return from VOSA; "Handbrake doesn't work on 1 wheel, 3 tyres, Back two arches because they're flared (just need the rivet arches on) And a horn wiring in, That's it!" When sentenced, he "was charged with dangerous driving, I got a 12 month driving ban and ordered to do an extended retest before I get my license back, 80 hours community service, £360 fines / fees, For having an insured, tax and mot'd car...." There was a lot of hassle with the car, he was given no details on how to get it back, when he enquired there was no paperwork or any trace of it, he eventually got it 3 days after he was allowed to take it and was charged for the daily storage. While I don't condone the dead tyres, I think he got off really badly here. Do we know if he had any previous points? Because if he'd already got three points then the tyres alone are enough to get him banned, right? I'm struggling to have too much sympathy for him, if you're driving a car that looks like that the least you should be doing is checking you've got enough meat on the tyres. The Police aren't daft, they see an old BMW looking like that and they know what you get up to, the first thing they're going for is the back tyres and if they're bald then expect to be bent over. I'm no angel, I've driven cars at times that aren't 100% but I'd have been the first to hold my hands up if I was pulled because it's a risk you take. The punishment does sound fairly hefty but part of me thinks we haven't heard the full story somehow. In terms of the legality of the other stuff that people are going on about I don't see it being an issue as long as you're aware of the law and can defend that point. If it's legal, it's legal, simple as that. This is the point, bald tyres is one thing but the article and the police are banging on about stuff that has nothing to do with it but now the assumption is that all those types of people and their cars are hooligans who risk the lives of unborn babies....THINK OF THE CHILDREN!! Give it 40-50 odd years and there will be documentaries fawning over this stuff like they do the cafe racers / rockers / mods.... thats what winds me up there will be old gits reading Daily Heil who are having spittle flecked inner monologues about 'youth of today' but who rode around on old Nortons with clip ons and all sorts of crazy mods, the stuff my dad says he got up to on bikes and cars.. jesus..
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Last Edit: Mar 10, 2015 15:23:45 GMT by classof82: del
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Mar 10, 2015 15:23:01 GMT
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It's quite obvious to look at the photos there that a car like that just screams Cop Magnet. if you were not into that style of modified cars then it just looks "iffy" (to use the legal jargon) and once the police have gone to the bother of stopping a driver then they're going to find something to justify it. The vast majority of unsafe cars are not modified. (As if to illustrate the point, as I write this a stock looking jag has just driven past with the front lights missing) just poorly maintained. It just so happens that this person's BMW is both, which is why it made the news.
The article states that the car had an MOT two months ago, which may be the case, but if the driver's into drifting and burnouts (on private land of course!) then his tyres are clearly going to wear out sooner.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:24:55 GMT
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There is more to this than any of us know so no point speculating and getting upset over it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) That was the case, but thanks to Curtis above we know have another version of the story ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Tyres? I would never knowingly drive with bald tyres but over the years have had a couple of surprises when I removed what I thought were good tyres to find no tread on the inside (due to a new but faulty TCA bush in one case). It's no defence but tyres are not always obvious without getting on the floor or the car on a ramp. Everything else in the case just scares me The offence seems to be 1 bald tyre, a part-working handbrake, and a car that looks like a shed but is being driven in a safe & legal manner (or it would no doubt have been mentioned) Am surprised at the mixed reactions on this - a car modding - forum
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Foxy
Posted a lot
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Making pink manly in the north!
Posts: 1,913
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Mar 10, 2015 15:27:12 GMT
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I had a similar thing. Was arrested for dangerous driving. (Doing rolling burnouts on the (private) area of the promenade and I'd toasted my rear tyres). I had spares in the pick up bed. I spoke with the officer to the point that it was clear, that I knew my kung fu more than him and subsequently changed over my rear wheels, was de-arrested and given a caution for breach of the peace. Knowing how many beans make 5 is better than winging it. Stay legal, stay safe and enjoy what we do.
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Last Edit: Mar 10, 2015 15:27:44 GMT by Foxy
I'm the handsome fella with the cheesy white specs or is that the cheesy fella with the handsome white specs?
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Mar 10, 2015 15:35:46 GMT
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There is more to this than any of us know so no point speculating and getting upset over it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) That was the case, but thanks to Curtis above we know have another version of the story ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Tyres? I would never knowingly drive with bald tyres but over the years have had a couple of surprises when I removed what I thought were good tyres to find no tread on the inside (due to a new but faulty TCA bush in one case). It's no defence but tyres are not always obvious without getting on the floor or the car on a ramp. Everything else in the case just scares me The offence seems to be 1 bald tyre, a part-working handbrake, and a car that looks like a shed but is being driven in a safe & legal manner (or it would no doubt have been mentioned) Am surprised at the mixed reactions on this - a car modding - forum Three bald tyres. Who knows what happened, the driver is going to paint himself in the best possible light regardless while we're never going to hear the Police side of it. I can't see that they're going to charge someone for dangerous driving without some kind of justification. It says he was doing 28 mph, which makes you think he was doing nothing, but was that 28 mph safe? I mean, there's a range of things you can be doing at 28 mph which could be considered unsafe. If it is literally a case of he's been done for dangerous driving purely on how his car looks then obviously something is very wrong and his lawyer needs to be struck off immediately for not doing his job... however, I can't see that being the case.
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Mar 10, 2015 15:48:53 GMT
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To be fair he should have been banned just for the beard/ moustache/ selfie pic. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Mar 10, 2015 15:52:39 GMT
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There is more to this than any of us know so no point speculating and getting upset over it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) That was the case, but thanks to Curtis above we know have another version of the story ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Tyres? I would never knowingly drive with bald tyres but over the years have had a couple of surprises when I removed what I thought were good tyres to find no tread on the inside (due to a new but faulty TCA bush in one case). It's no defence but tyres are not always obvious without getting on the floor or the car on a ramp. Everything else in the case just scares me The offence seems to be 1 bald tyre, a part-working handbrake, and a car that looks like a shed but is being driven in a safe & legal manner (or it would no doubt have been mentioned) Am surprised at the mixed reactions on this - a car modding - forum I'm not surprised as people will look at it and go "well i don't mod Bimmers" or "i don't do stretch" and pick their sides and carry on, there is no true modding group really, even retro rides has clearly people who own old Rover P5's and people in Mazda MX5's who ultimatley have differing opinions on cars. But i will say this people probably find an old MINI with arches and stupid wide wheels more acceptable than some hipster in a bimmer...
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