lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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May 29, 2007 22:21:06 GMT
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Firstly, here's the car> retrorides.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=1180477123As originally thought, the mk2 polo turbo conversion is leaving me with a few clearance problems between the trubo, radiator and intercooler. Here's the clearnce to the slam panel   Obviously the compressor housing can be clocked to suit but the gap for the radiator and intercooler is minimal :blink: So, I started to think about my options, Put the radiator on the pee (mk2 golf style)   This is no good as as you can see the turbo is really close to the end tank so I can forget that idea as there is no room for an intercooler either So, I try the radiator in the vertical (origianl mini) position in the engine bay over the gearbox  As you can see it just fits!! So I see if the bonnet shuts  Which it does with a suprising amount of clearance to the bonnet, next is to check for track rod bar clearance  A bit on the tight side but more clearance will be avialable once the suspension is dropped 40mm so i'm not really bothered I then check to see how things would look with the expansion tank and a mk3 washer bottle in place  I'm not overly sure about the mk3 screen wash bottle but at least it fits in And here's how the engine bay would look with the rad in this position with everything in  I think with some good ducting or even a 75 degrees thermostate and 82 degrees rad fan switch and a slimline fan sucking air through from the turret side of the rad then it would work quite well?? The incoming air from the front of the car would not be hindered by a rad as well helping to improve under bonnet airflow as well. The radiator is not exposed to any heat from the turbo which is a bonus and an intercooler can be used low down in the front panel which would also mean it would be a fair distance from the radiating heat from the turbo, manifold and downpipe. I would use something like a bmw 330 d intercooler with the inlet and outlets facing upwards to allow for radiator pipe clearance. The coil would have to move but this could be attached to the slam panel via a bracket so no worries there. The bonnet would be raised at the back the same as johns and duncans to help under bonnet air flow further. I think that about covers it, not ideal admittantly but then again I think it would work and work well, what do you guys think?? |
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Last Edit: May 29, 2007 22:23:35 GMT by lregg
Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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May 29, 2007 23:00:46 GMT
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Correct me if I'm being thick here, but in the first pics you have the rad in the horizontal (normal) position, but in the later pics you have it end-on, but the waterways seem to go the same way (across the rad)... is this a different rad? I'm just thinking of possible problems making a rad designed for cross-flow cooling work the other way up, with heat convection etc... just a thought like.  Love the project though, looks like you've got a real minty car to start with!  |
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May 29, 2007 23:46:25 GMT
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i say go for it , if you can force some air from the front into that gap between the rad and iner arch would be the way to go too , maybe even a vent in the bonnet at that side too?
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lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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benz boy>
The rad should be fitted horizontally BUT i would not be able to fit in an intercooler, the rad end tank is really close to the turbo so it would probably melt!!!
My options are, mount it vertically or in the boot, that is unless anyone else has a better idea??
Gregg
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Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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I'd always go for putting it in the ram airflow unless you reeeeally don't have any choice. Years ago I did a radiator design for the Caterham 21 and they'd left no space for a rad at all. Ended up leaning it forward by about 60 degrees so only the top tank got the air hitting it. Loads of ducting later, and.... it was still mostly curse word.
Can you put it in the front and use a heat shield on the turbo? I'm not sure what rad you're using, but is it possible to get a thinner one? If you've got a 3 row there, use a 2 row? A shorter (narrower across the car) rad would probably also help to get clearance to the turbo.
How about a couple of motorbike radiators side by side across the car and get air to them under the bumper? Depends how low the car's going for stone damage etc, but most cars now don't suck much air through the radiator grille, it all comes in under the bumper.
If you're going for the Mini solution, you'll need to be extra careful with ducting the air out. If it's a bit tricky for the air to go in, you've got to make it extra easy to get out.
When you're designing cooling systems you really want the ram air to do the cooling unless you're stationary, otherwise the fan will be on too much.
As asked above, with a pressurised sealed system it doesn't matter if the rad is vertical flow or crossflow.
Gareth
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Last Edit: May 30, 2007 6:54:54 GMT by garethj
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lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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May 30, 2007 21:47:48 GMT
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garethj
Two rads plumbed in in series would work okay then??
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Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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May 30, 2007 21:49:37 GMT
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cant you just lean the motor back a bit??
si
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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May 30, 2007 21:54:51 GMT
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or you can if carefull.
poke the fins out where it touches the turbo and squeze the cores back to either side to make clearence??
i did this to a few cbr racebikes in the past to get the rad up high whilst making the ram air intake lower.. it worked a treat but you must be carefull
alternatively...
if you use a copper rad ypou can just cut a few cores out and solder up the ends...
si
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May 30, 2007 22:33:19 GMT
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alot of civics use very thin rads that only seem to take up half of the space at the front maybe you could use one of these or get something custom made thats half the width but thicker? failing that give me the turbo!!
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lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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May 30, 2007 22:48:57 GMT
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 I'm looking into using one of these at the moment "Especially for more powerful and hotter running engines. Developed using the latest technology and design for increasing air flow, utilizing just two rows of very large cores and V shaped gills. Not only is this radiator much lighter and narrower than the 4 core, it performs as well as the old 4-core.Being of lighter material " |
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Last Edit: May 30, 2007 22:50:55 GMT by lregg
Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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garethj Two rads plumbed in in series would work okay then?? I reckon you'd want them plumbed in parallel for absolute best performance, but if there's enough cooling capacity they should be ok in series. Get yourself to a branch of Serck and have a look through their radiator book, it'll give dimensions of every rad they sell with depth and how many rows it is. |
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I'm looking into using one of these at the moment "Especially for more powerful and hotter running engines. Developed using the latest technology and design for increasing air flow, utilizing just two rows of very large cores and V shaped gills. Not only is this radiator much lighter and narrower than the 4 core, it performs as well as the old 4-core.Being of lighter material " Farkin hell, that takes me back a bit. It's a copper brass radiator with pressed brass header tanks, it'll weigh a ton compared to an aluminium rad with plastic tanks. From what they describe as not suitable for grasstrack racing, the fins are probably quite dense, this means you get a huge pressure drop across it so you'll need a very meaty fan, and you need to be very careful about ducting on the inner wing to get enough air in. And getting the air out of the engine bay too! |
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May 31, 2007 17:47:18 GMT
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new turbo manifold or make an adapter and a length of exhaust pipe to move the turbo over and sit it to the side of the engine. it won't spool as quickly or make as much power but you aren't going anywhere if it overheats so make sure you get it sorted properly.
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Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
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May 31, 2007 21:51:34 GMT
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I split the rads on the pickup because the engine reaches from the firewall to the front grill. I designed 2 to work as one big rad and had them made up by a local rad shop >> like this >> big engine - small engine bay and amazingly it does work. Even last summer in traffic.  |
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Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
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May 31, 2007 21:53:32 GMT
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John Sleath also used this style but with 2 standard rads working in series : PS: also note crazy blower set up on this cortina !   |
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Last Edit: May 31, 2007 21:56:11 GMT by Rob
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lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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Thanks for the input guys,
the car is going to be trailored to a local radiator company to see if anything off the shelf will work, if not then it'll be custom time
The radiator has the additional task of cooling the turbo so it has to be as efficient as possible. There are some mk3 turbo polo's kicking about that has cooling issue when thrashed hard for not that long periods of time
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Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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Rob
Posted a lot
You know, for kids!
Posts: 2,515
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It's not the thrashing - it's the thrashing followed by traffic ! ;D
If ypu can get something off the shelf it wil save you ££££s . . .
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You could try a chargecooler www.chargecooler.co.uk which can use a much smaller rad than an intercooler and can be placed anywhere you have space. Thant may give you a bit more for the main rad. |
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lregg
Part of things
Posts: 42
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I went to my local rad firm to see what ideas they came up with.
Basically i'll be using a modified 4 row mini radiator FRONT MOUNTED and i'll use a 9 row (or similar) cooler inbetween the water cooled turbo return pipe and the cooling system itself
alpineandy
there is physically not enough air gap between the exhaust housing of the turbo and were a rad could sit without the radiating heat effecting the rad and/or melted the end tank
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Last Edit: Jun 2, 2007 17:41:45 GMT by lregg
Soon to have more power to weight than a modern £30k+ "rally car for the road" at the ripe old age of 23!! Ladies and gentleman, i give you, the beige beast
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