Tarka
Part of things
Posts: 905
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May 29, 2007 10:01:31 GMT
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I've been thinking recently - as I travel along the dreary british motorway network at how the brits cannot be described as petrol heads - not really. My reasoning behind this is that for every generation, when aged between 17 and about 30, there have been a large number of people willing to spend their hard earned on modifying their car, to bring an air of individuality and in their eyes, bettering the standard manufacturers compromised offering. What happens to these enthusisasts when they reach 30? For some reason, a standard spec BMW 320 or Audi A4 2.0 FSI is now perfectly acceptable as a daily driver. Why though? When you were 23, your MK2 Golf had lowered suspension to make it handle better, a Jetex exhaust to make it sound better and a set of 7x15 Borbets to make it look better. Now you've "grown up" you are accepting the grey brand image of your new Audi A4 and that when you park at Saisnbury's on Saturday morning you don't mind that it looks the same as the one opposite and that "Oh look, they specced the £2500 alloys aswell" If we were really a nation of car enthusiasts, I would have seen a nicely lowered Citroen Picasso or a deep dished Megane Scenic. I have never seen anything like that in the UK. Take the Japanese as an example. Someone who owned a highly tuned Corolla in the mid 90s, gets married and has some kids, buys a Toyata Previa but then hard slams it on massive wheels. The fact that there are loads of these for sale on the J auctions must show that there are plenty of people willing to show their individuaity.  The same goes in Europe. I have seen loads of nicely upgraded Passats and Vectras in Germany - these are normal family cars, not Woerthersee visitors.  Has Britain allowed itself to make do, accepting that the standard factory Focus ST really cannot be bettered? Have our partners really wrung out every drop of individuality - forbidding us to spend a bit of money on our hobby? I'd like to think that all the bodykitted Saxo drivers will graduate to modded C4 Picassos or modded Mondeos but they won't. A small amount will, but most will end up driving a bland forgetable box. Thats why I like it on here - a varied age group with a majority swing of enthusiasts who agree that standard just isn't good enough. |
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Sharks in the garage.🐬🇩🇪
I'll finish my projects when you've finished your's!😎😜
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,959
Club RR Member Number: 174
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May 29, 2007 10:10:45 GMT
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My dads going like that tbh he's still clinging on to some credibility (his current 04 reg Passat is remapped) but basically hes turning into an old fart. His driving is getting slower aswell now he's past 50. He's an ex traffic officer and was exceptionally quick on the road and on track, but now he seems as interested in getting more mpg as how quick he can get to work.
Matt
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May 29, 2007 10:15:01 GMT
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Good questions.
However when you visit Germany or Japan do you really see that many of these cars out there or just loits of boggo saloons and MPVs? I used to keep asking my brother about the car scene in Japan as he lived there for like 12 years and he always said "there isn't one"
So for those of us watching on the web it seems like every Japaense guy is a full on mightnight club member, drift king and all that but to Mr Average in the suburbs its bone-stock Previa time.
I know people come back from the US and are amazing they didn't see wall-to -wall hot rods, lowriders, chopppers and the like. Just lots and lots of Hyundais and FWD Buicks.
I don't even see that many real modified Saxos or whatever, unless you count a back box, Halfords Special rimz and some stick on tat as "modified"?
Some researchy tat done a while ago suggests that the Brits are one of the most car-enthusuiastic nations out there. Our anual spend when factored per head population on stuff like alloy wheels, ICE, resotratin parts, resto services, custom paint, all that kind of stuff is way ahead of any other nation in the EU, and we were pretty high in "the world". Oddly enough I think spain came after us in the "research". we were miles behind the yanks of course but thats because theres proportionally far more epeople out there able to drop six figures into a hot rod or resto project. The Swedes beat us I think.
I think I read we are the second largest kit car market in the world. Or something.
One thing I have noticed is that the vast majoprity of the British people go on about "individuality" but what they mean is their right to be exactly the same as everybody else. Anyone who does do anything particularly "different" is instantly mocked, beaten up, etc.
I think we are becoming less individualistic and I think our love of mid-silver hatchbacks and saloons on credit is a symptom of this.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Tarka
Part of things
Posts: 905
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May 29, 2007 10:24:03 GMT
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My J opinion is admittedly web-based but I lived in Germany for a few years and saw a lot more mildly modded family motors.
Those research stats are interesting - it would be good to add in an age factor as I would agree that there are more modded Saxos and 106s in the UK than in Germany for example. I also wonder whether these stats are looking at "after market" or whether they included branded upgrades when ticking the options box at the dealer?
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Sharks in the garage.🐬🇩🇪
I'll finish my projects when you've finished your's!😎😜
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May 29, 2007 10:30:19 GMT
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In defence of the old farts..... You can often improve the handling of your car, but if it makes the ride worse how much benefit do you get? Cars grip a lot better than they did 20 years ago anyway, this is often mistaken for good handling so why bother changing? You might stick nice wheels on it, but they're farking expensive for something you never see, tyres are more expensive and it loads your insurance premium. A big ole stereo is a great thing to have, but when you come back and see a broken window and wires from the dash, do you really want to get another one? 20 years ago when most cars only came with a mono radio, there was a lot to be said for improving the sound. Now there are teams of engineers matching the speakers to the amp and testing different types of head unit. If a new car's stereo is 90%, why spend £500 on making it 95% ? Personally I have a normal newish car for family stuff, and enjoy things like it starting every day, demisting well and not having to think about it. And a retro for laughs  |
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Last Edit: May 29, 2007 10:31:15 GMT by garethj
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May 29, 2007 10:33:29 GMT
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I think we're better than some countries, but you're right about the age thing...how do people become disinterested in modifying? It's not just cars either...I watched people who were really into something (skateboarding, BMX, music) just give up on it because they thought they should...or worse still, because other people thought they should. It's something I just don't get - if you wanted to do something, and that something is still enjoyable (and legal!) then why stop?
The phrase 'Why Grow Up?' came from this...when all my mates decided that they had so stop riding bikes because they wanted to go the pub I just looked on with a confused look...why did one thing mean the other should stop? I had friends who built some cool Anglias, Escorts, Beetles, Imps and even Minors but now drive Vectras and Mondeos...how did that happen? Did they ever really like what the were doing? How can you stop doing the things you love? We might have to make compromises, but to stop altogether?
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Tarka
Part of things
Posts: 905
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May 29, 2007 10:33:39 GMT
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Bah Gareth you old fart!! ;D Any member of this board is immune to my sweeping statements so don't worry.  |
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Last Edit: May 29, 2007 10:34:02 GMT by Tarka
Sharks in the garage.🐬🇩🇪
I'll finish my projects when you've finished your's!😎😜
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Tarka
Part of things
Posts: 905
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May 29, 2007 10:37:07 GMT
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Rmad - much more eloquently put than I did - you are exactly right. Does it mean that a large proportion of the fad was following the herd??
Its an expensive pasttime if you're not really into it.
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Sharks in the garage.🐬🇩🇪
I'll finish my projects when you've finished your's!😎😜
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May 29, 2007 10:48:40 GMT
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As I mentioned earlier, new cars now do so many things well that there's not the same need to improve them as when I were 'lad Be honest, when you were 17 if you could have had a car that did 120mph, 50mpg, had a kicking 4 speaker stereo, seats with headrests (the time I spent around scrapyards looking for Scirocco front seats  ), have a 5 speed gearbox and it didn't need you to spend every weekend under it, you'd have it like a shot wouldn't you? Most of my teenage cars wouldn't do any of those things, now any 8 year old Fiesta will do them. There's also the question of why anyone should keep a hobby for more than 10 years or so? It's a bit like some of the people you see at Glastonbury - just sad to see a 30 year old white bloke pretend to be a 20 year old black kid ;D To be honest, having a modified car when I was 20 was something I had to do, now I'm happy it's just a hobby. |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
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May 29, 2007 10:55:24 GMT
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It is strange isn't it. I think there are plenty of people of all ages that are smitten with the car bug - you just need to see the range of ages at any type of car show (except perhaps the modern hatch type  I wouldn't know ) Most will have a regular car as a daily though as do many on here. Some of those will probably be a little bit modified in the way you describe eg rims, chipping etc. The people who stop haven't really got the bug hard enough and don't have 20W/50 in their veins. They might have been doing it because it was the thing for their age to do and that's what their peers did too. I think there's a lot less "max" type cars driving around now as I suspect its gone out of fashion a bit. I reckon there were lots more modified Beetles being daily driven by teens/student types in the late 80's. Once they and their peers "grow up" they do the same things as each other again. Have the 2.2 kids and go to Homebase on Sunday in their Mondeo/Zafira, watch the football in the afternoon etc. I think most car people are "doo-ers" rather than "sit around-ers". Witness the wanted ad for a car to play with while there's 3 months TV trash coming up I've allowed myself a giggle at Rmads words too. I'd always wanted a skateboard as a kid but I guess I wasn't confident enough. I made sure I got one for a mid/late 20's birthday though, taught myself a couple of tricks, broke my wrist, the whole deal. I can tick it off as "done that" now  |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
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May 29, 2007 11:01:52 GMT
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Be honest, when you were 17 if you could have had a car that did 120mph, 50mpg, had a kicking 4 speaker stereo, seats with headrests (the time I spent around scrapyards looking for Scirocco front seats ), have a 5 speed gearbox and it didn't need you to spend every weekend under it, you'd have it like a shot wouldn't you? OK I was 18 when I first got a car but I made darn sure it had none of those items! I could have had much more comfort and speed from a newer car (we're talking early nineties here.) A car modifying guy is never going to be happy with what they've got. It doesn't matter what the factory has made it do, someone who wants to play with cars will want to change it anyway. Witness the "polishing of the blue astra" That guy doesn't want to get mucky under a classic every weekend but he wasn't happy with it as bought so he did what he wanted to make it his own. |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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May 29, 2007 11:04:26 GMT
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However when you visit Germany or Japan do you really see that many of these cars out there or just lots of boggo saloons and MPVs? When I go to another country, this is the most interesting thing for me - 'normal' stuff: cars, buildings, shops, people. Sometimes when I get back, I keep my 'normal' tourist head on in order to see the UK with a non-biased view and see the UK roads with the same interest. I'd say that Germany and the UK are about equal for modded motors on everyday roads, but in Germany about 20% of those are great, 50% are good and 30% are really bad. In the UK 20% are great, 60% are just OK and 20% are really bad. In Japan there's loads more modded motors - 50% of those are great, 30% are good, 15% are just OK and 5% are bad. Imagine Halfords car park on a Saturday....would it look like this?:  ^ That's Autobacs (Halfords equivalent) on a Saturday.     All of those were taken in Autobacs car park at the same time. Speaking to Doubleclutch while we were out there, he said that lots of people don't own their own house, so their car is their greatest possession - maybe that's the answer, does house buying end car action? |
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phoenix
Part of things
BLACK HERALD
Posts: 161
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May 29, 2007 11:12:08 GMT
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"does house buying end car action?"
thats what i think, for most that morgage takes up the slack of the cash you once had so now they have other things to spend it on and a partner that says it our mony, and WE shouldent wast money on things we don't need.
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May 29, 2007 11:25:46 GMT
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I also enjoy seeing the "difference of the ordinary" when I'm abroad. Just something fun about it all being "foriegn" but in its own correct context. Like the food. I riue the day that every town centre is all TK Max and JD Sports and McDonnalds all across the world but it will happen. We used to go to another town to see what shops they had and the like but no everywhere is the same in the UK, it will be EU-wide soon and then world wide. Meh.
So yeah, last time I was in the US I was perving at the shabby FWD 80s 90s tat. Its awful but its interesting because we don;t have it. Even some of the USDM Hyundias LOL.
Yeah, I often wonder why people stop doing what they do. I suspect its because they follow the lead of what other peope they think they shoudl emulate are doing. Hense they built Minis and Anglias when thats what the cool kids did and now they buy Ikea furniture because thats what the smart dads do.
No doubt I will horribly embarrass my kid(s) by being that strange dad with the long hair, dirty finger nails, dodgy old cars and the nervous tick... But thats me. Thats what I do. Badly, admittedly, but thats what I do.
The lure of a modern sensible daily tempts me now and again but I wonder what cool stuff I could buy with the money and what cool car it would have to replace...
Nah.
Whats wrong with a 30 year old guy still liking music?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 29, 2007 11:38:29 GMT
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Whats wrong with a 30 year old guy still liking music? Nothing at all, but what's next? Encouraging your dad to dance at the wedding disco? ;D |
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firkin
Part of things
Ignosce mihi cacare necesse est.
Posts: 274
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May 29, 2007 11:46:03 GMT
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personally I don't want to be Mr Conformity - I've been a petrolhead from day 1 (thanks parents & grandparents) and theres no way I'm ever going to stop doing what I want to do and what makes me happy. A lot of younger blokes get into cars as thats whats expected of a hormonal young adult, as they age they finance a sensible car and go to Ikea at the weekends as that is what is expected of them. It's only the real petrolheads that continue tinkering and playing as we have always done - it's in the blood as far as I'm concerned and there's no way I'm looking for a cure. Unfortunately as the years creep by the rest of the population look on us as "strange eccentric old men who haven't grown up" - I say its them who haven't grown up as they are still trying to conform - unlike us petrolheads who have no wish to conform as we are happy with who we are and what we do. I have no conscious desire to be different I just am!
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May 29, 2007 11:49:51 GMT
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If you're passionate about something, in our case cars, then you'll find every excuse under the sun not to change. I realise the onslaught of families, mortgages and work pressures means you can't find the time, energy or money as you might have done once, but I think once a petrolhead, always a petrolhead. I really could never imagine giving up what I love, and those around me have to accept that!
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May 29, 2007 11:57:03 GMT
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How interesting! Well as you all know now, from today i'm now part of that stat somehow somewhere, although tick boxes on surveys have had me 30 since I was 26, "18-25" "26-35" etc singned the log book for this yesterday.  Why? Its crazy, its keeping it real, it allows me to focus on my silly projects, and has space to sling my bike in so I can continue to curse word my self at the top of slopes, and slide on my ass into mud! In addition like garethj said I wont care too much if its scratched in the inner city. debating alloys or not for that reason, and its just mad what not continue the fun crazyness thats made things fun this far? and collect more WTF from sheep like peers...  might aswell, on this I agree with rmad, so many people seem to lose their soul somehow, luckily other are keeping it real of seeing the light. onthing to remember though, some peoples when you see them on the road monday - saturday, their very cool cars, bikes, skateboards, paraglide stuff, may well be in teh garage or kitchen  |
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 it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts |
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firkin
Part of things
Ignosce mihi cacare necesse est.
Posts: 274
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May 29, 2007 12:15:16 GMT
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luckily other are keeping it real of seeing the light. onthing to remember though, some peoples when you see them on the road monday - saturday, their very cool cars, bikes, skateboards, paraglide stuff, may well be in teh garage or kitchen ...........in the kitchen, the shed,the bathroom,the livingroom,up the loft - it really annoys the young lady in my life (brownie points for that description) Why have a standard wooden door stop when you can have a nice dirty cylinder head? ;D |
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May 29, 2007 12:59:51 GMT
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Interesting. I don’t see why someone’s tastes/interests should change as they get older, Rmad puts it very well. John Peel was surely the ultimate example of this and a good role model, he was as passionate and enthusiastic about music as he had been 40-50 years previously.
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), have a 5 speed gearbox and it didn't need you to spend every weekend under it, you'd have it like a shot wouldn't you? Most of my teenage cars wouldn't do any of those things, now any 8 year old Fiesta will do them.
I wouldn't know 
might aswell, on this I agree with rmad, so many people seem to lose their soul somehow, 
