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Technically it is not taxed by two people at the same time. The moment you sign the V5 the car becomes your property. The old owner's tax becomes void there and then, and he becomes eligible for a refund. You as the new owner become liable for the tax at the same time.
No problem if you buy from a dealer as there is a system in place for dealers to tax the car on the new owners behalf!
Maybe the people who dream this stuff up have only ever bought shiny new cars from Main Dealers?
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You tax it using the reference number on the new keeper strip. Then it's a new keeper taxing the car and not the current owner. When I bought my last van I taxed it over the phone as it wasn't taxed when I bought it but the van I have now was already taxed so I just drove that home. I won't be buying any cars in the middle of the month any more though due to the newly introduced tax on tax.
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sweaty palms slip off joystick
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Technically, if you want to get into it, signing the V5 makes you the keeper, not the owner. The keeper is responsible for tax. You own it, so in theory you could drive it, but remember most third party insurance extensions do not cover another car you own, only someone elses car, so you may not be insured. You are the keeper from the date you put on the form, but from what time is not recorded. "Getting around" that would require lying about the time or date you became the keeper of the car.
That's the technical, legal side of things but it is clear there is no easy way around it but to tax it immediately, which as pointed out is a service much less than foolproof as-is, and being internet based, it never will be.
Just a bad system made even worse.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Legit question... can you tax a car which is already taxed? If so, on what grounds can the DVLA have the same car taxed by 2 individuals at the same time? The above posters have explained this well. Basically, as soon as the logbook is signed over it is down to you to tax it, as the old tax (with the previous owner) is technically void. Thus the green slip reference number is required. This thread in a tidier form really should become an FAQ. There are still many people who are confused by this entire system, where I believe some clear cut information would help things massively .
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quackshot
Posted a lot
...friggin' cars...
Posts: 1,354
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But it's not void as the seller loses that month and the buyer pays for it. Essentially taxed twice for a month.
The road tax belongs to the vehicle, not the owner.
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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The road tax belongs to the vehicle, not the owner. Not anymore I'm afraid, that was one of the main points of the new system.
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The road tax belongs to the vehicle, not the owner. Not anymore I'm afraid, that was one of the main points of the new system. And as we are constantly reminded it has never actually been a tax either, it's a licence to put the car on the public roads. (Like a fishing licence.) I see us drifting towards a system where cars have to be bought and sold through licensed agents as in Japan and elsewhere. It's for our own good, etc.
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This all sounds thoroughly confusing to me...!!! How on Earth could something like this get the green light when this aspect of proceedings is so darn messy?!
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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Looking from another angle, say you have insurance and MOT in place but upon completing the purchase drive the vehicle home on the previous owner's tax. This will be common, no internet / mobile signal, maybe the car's in the sticks etc. As 'the (new) owner' hasn't taxed the car is it legally insured? The tax and insurance would be for different owners despite both being present. Massive grey area and insurance companies have powerful legal teams. Say you get rear ended and pushed into someone else, totally innocent, but legally at fault for the car you're pushed in to. You could end up on the receiving end of a very hefty bill and an IN10 on your license very easily.
It is a deeply flawed system where the only winners will be lawyers and HM Gov. But hey, it's for our own good.
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Hi, I think one possible way round this is to change the way we buy and sell cars. Instead of the buyer going to see the car, the seller goes to the buyer. They do the deal, sign the paperwork and possibly a timed and dated receipt. Any unroadworthy cars whether mechanically or lacking MOT or insurance or tax are treated in the normal way by car transportation.
Colin
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Last Edit: Jan 5, 2015 12:07:32 GMT by colnerov
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Hi, I think one possible way round this is to change the way we buy and sell cars. Instead of the buyer going to see the car, the seller goes to the buyer. They do the deal, sign the paperwork and possibly a timed and dated receipt. Any unroadworthy cars whether mechanically or lacking MOT or insurance or tax are treated in the normal way by car transportation. Colin The problem here is that as a seller you could end up driving miles for tyre kickers and test pilots. It's also dangerous, you could be lured anywhere with your vehicle and documents, like the car too cheap to be missed scam in reverse. The real question is why did they not simply keep the old system but switch from paper discs to electronic record?
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Hi, I think one possible way round this is to change the way we buy and sell cars. Instead of the buyer going to see the car, the seller goes to the buyer. They do the deal, sign the paperwork and possibly a timed and dated receipt. Any unroadworthy cars whether mechanically or lacking MOT or insurance or tax are treated in the normal way by car transportation. Colin You are really over complicating it, there is really nothing complicted in how you do it now. If you buy a car you tax it before you drive it away - the same as you used to have do in the past if the car wasnt tax'd. So you do it before you go pick it up, or ring and do thier and then. Or you just take the tiny risk and drive it home and do it when you get back - aslong as you are insured on the car - thats the major one.
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we recently bought a car and you can't tax it before you by it because you do not have the V5 it will also be shown as having tax on the dvla system, but when we bought it we thought it would be possible to do it on line..no because the records on the dvla computer were still showing it as taxed and not ours so after a few days wife tried to do it at the post office, but no had to go into town to a main post office so sort it and this was well over a week after buying the motor...
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The major glitch is trying to tax a car that is already taxed, typical bodge where the infrastructure isn't fit for purpose at the moment. The danger is by trying to do the right thing you leave yourself wide open.
Whilst there is no documented grace period, which would resolve the issue, it's a grey area. Either that or the system needs to be up to speed when you transfer a V5.
I'd like to hear an insurance industry take on this, it puts them in an awkward position as well as motorists.
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I bought a Nissan yesterday, it was taxed and he had insurance, I drove it back Sunday afternoon after swopping over my insurance on Saturday and taxed it this morning at the Post Office. -----Simples !
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I bought a Nissan yesterday, it was taxed and he had insurance, I drove it back Sunday afternoon after swopping over my insurance on Saturday and taxed it this morning at the Post Office. -----Simples ! Yes & that is what most will probably do, but the point everyone is making, is 'as the new owner of the car' technically it's NOT taxed because the tax is not transferable, that's the whole point of this discussion. I would do the same but it don't make it legal !
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As 'the (new) owner' hasn't taxed the car is it legally insured? The tax and insurance would be for different owners despite both being present. Massive grey area and insurance companies have powerful legal teams. Say you get rear ended and pushed into someone else, totally innocent, but legally at fault for the car you're pushed in to. You could end up on the receiving end of a very hefty bill and an IN10 on your license very easily. In most cases you are still covered, depends on the small print on your policy. Mine specifically states that I would be still be insured if I had an accident whilst having no MOT or tax but they'd only pay out market value not the agreed value.
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As 'the (new) owner' hasn't taxed the car is it legally insured? The tax and insurance would be for different owners despite both being present. Massive grey area and insurance companies have powerful legal teams. Say you get rear ended and pushed into someone else, totally innocent, but legally at fault for the car you're pushed in to. You could end up on the receiving end of a very hefty bill and an IN10 on your license very easily. In most cases you are still covered, depends on the small print on your policy. Mine specifically states that I would be still be insured if I had an accident whilst having no MOT or tax but they'd only pay out market value not the agreed value. What's market value got to do with anything? What about the bloke you've run into? With say brain injuries who can't ever work again or is crippled, it's alright saying your insurance is valid, but is it? Are they gonna cough up the potential millions?
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But if you tax the car after the accident, it's back dated, so it is taxed (I know it's technically not, but if your paying for it - it should be)
I wouldn't worry to much about driving a car home on the previous owners tax though, as at that point in time - as far as all the systems are concerned it is taxed and wont ping an ANPR.
Only good way around it would be make tax start/end on the day of the month it is bought from - but that wouldn't be as profitable.
It's a poor system, poorly executed.
I would put money on more than 50% of the forum having driven cars home that had no tax what so ever.
Belts and braces way - Buy car, tax it (online, over phone or at a post office) = sorted.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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we recently bought a car and you can't tax it before you by it because you do not have the V5 it will also be shown as having tax on the dvla system, but when we bought it we thought it would be possible to do it on line..no because the records on the dvla computer were still showing it as taxed and not ours so after a few days wife tried to do it at the post office, but no had to go into town to a main post office so sort it and this was well over a week after buying the motor... Same thing with me, tried via the web and phone, had go to the main Post Office, where the nice lady entered my details, via the web, into the DVLA! It was also showing as taxed 2 days after I purchased it. One interesting thing, but slightly off topic, I asked the nice postal lady to put the car tax on Direct Debit, (I know I'm tight but a fivers a fiver!) and she said that the DVLA won't take the money till 2 weeks later....I'll wait and see if this happens!
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