Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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Thanks for posting! you get over 300hp by just freeing up the exhaust and going EFI honestly. our engine is putting down in excess of 300lb-ft already as well via my butt dyno.
the G265 or the stock 240D 4 speed are my two best options at the moment. the 265 can take 400lb/ft without issue in a car this light.
T56 would be great. T5 would work fine if the bellhousing was doable.
have also seen people run the BMW S6S420G out of a 540i and I think a great option would be the 1994 530i S5S 320Z which is the same box internally that is run in the E36 M3 and is constantly being pushed to 5-600lb/ft in turbo E36/E30s around the world. best bit, they're almost free and they're 10 spline so they fit mercedes or BMW clutches.
can you post info for the G265 bellhousing people? I will be going MT this year, cost be damned..
contemplating cutting apart one of my garbage 722s to do it with the 4 speed box or a 265 both of which I have.
hardest thing for me will be the flywheel. the 72 350SE flywheels are out of production everywhere.
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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I'm not sure how well that 716 out of the 240D will hold up after continued use, but if you're easy on it you might get away with it! The G265 is the superior choice between it and the T5 since it can handle more torque. I'm still on the fence between building up this motor, or going for an M119. I hadn't even considered a box out of newer BMW with the exception of whatever the 6-speed is that is in the diesels that folks use for the OM606 builds that are hitting around 1000hp. I've just been looking for E28s to try and get the G265 out of them. Elbe Engineering over in Latvia has a full kit including flywheel for a two-disc clutch setup. Not sure what the cost is; if you find out, let me know. Stateside, you could try reaching out to Jono over at Blue Ridge MB. Reference the flywheel, I'm wonder what can be done to modify the original flywheel. If I had a box already, I could at least start the fitting process and working on a bellhousing solution and then address the flywheel as I get to that point. If I could even get my hands on a G265 for a reasonable price, I'd be pretty damn happy. Been trying to find a pedal assembly, but it seems ebay.de is no longer littered with them like it was about two years ago. I just want to swap my own damn gears behind my V8!!  |
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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W126s were offered with a manual M103 stateside were they not? should be findable!
I'd love to get a bellhousing and flywheel if it was $5,000 or less.
otherwise, I think I am going to pay to have a batch of 10 made this year to use with a G265 and sell them off. I seriously think they'd sell within a year even though the financial outlay would be pretty staggering.
the 716 4 speed is a strong box actually. all iron case and a fairly big gear set. would not surprise me if it was stronger than a 265 inside.
I've got a USM G265 from an E30 M3 I intend to use but agreed on looking for early 80s E28s with 265s for parts.
I hate this damn automatic. rest of the car is so fabulous.
going to fit the idle control valve soon and get the cold start injector pulse configured. should help drivability.
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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Not here in the states. The only manual M103s we ever got here in the US were the 190E 2.6 and the 260E/300E 2.6, and those are pretty rare themselves.
I'm headed to the yard this weekend to see what I can find, transmission wise. If I can get a 265 and start the mockup process for the bellhousing, I'll happily share the details with you. Flywheel is something I'll likely have to make myself or have made provided I can't find something else to alter. Clutch is whatever you want, so that's no big deal.
You and I aren't the only ones who want manuals behind these motors. I plan to get an SEC in the future, and a manual swap would be in its future too.
The only other issue I have with the 716 is that I'd be lusting after that 5th gear that you'd get on say a 717, or G275 like I have in my 16V. The other issue I have with MB boxes are the external shiftrods. The Getrag in my 16v is the same box as what's in the E30 M3, but the difference is that the E30 transmission uses the internal shift mechanism, which is WAYYYYY smoother. The external setup feels clunky (my only complaint with my 16V, but I love the dogleg too much to swap the box for anything else).
I'm really hoping I can find something this weekend!
I lament this automatic as well; so much power is lost, and I hate mashing the pedal and waiting for the damn kickdown.
Need to start on my EFI setup too, but I honestly don't know where to begin since all I've seen done are the Gen 2 motors (5.6) which use a different idle air control and all that jazz.
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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.... 190E 2.6 and the 260E/300E 2.6, and t.... forgetting the R129, aren't you  I'm all for a collaborative work. the 4 speed runs almost identical gear ratios to the 4 speed 722.350 I have now, so I'm not sure. car has a 2.88:1 diff in it already. 5 speed would be nice for over drive, but again that M/T is basically what I have now  for EFI, I'm happy to share whatever details I didn't cover in this thread. ICV, use an early 1990s Audi/VW 2 wire PWM valve. super easy to configure and works with everything under the sun. |
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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Ah yes! The 300SL! Still no dice on the pedal assembly  Folks have apparently adapted the 123 pedal set (for those who did M/T swaps on their 300SDs [126 and 116]), but I'm not sure what that entailed as I never researched it in depth. Though I'm almost positive all T56s in cars at the yard have been pulled and sold by the yard itself, I sure hope I'm lucky enough to find one! If not, then the G265. What other gearbox options would you think we have and I'll search and see what I can find. As enthusiasts, collaboration should be at the core of what we do! Ah yes, as I near the start of that project I'll be picking your brain. Want to get rid of that god-awful distributor ignition system and of course CIS. I'm wondering if I should focus on fuel management first before worrying about ignition, or if I should just get all that I need and do it all in one weekend. |
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Scoped out some S5S 320Zs and the price is right. The issue I noticed is that bellhousing it molded with the front half of the entire box. You'd be looking at cutting and welding the front of the 722 to that. Not a hard thing to do, probably the easiest option, honestly, but I'd have to pick up a spare 722 just for the sake of having one to cut up outside of the car so I can keep driving it until I do the swap.
Of course, even if I was dealing with a removable bellhousing unit like a G265, T5, or T56, I'd likely still just cut the bellhousing off the auto and weld it to the rear half of whatever bellhousing came with the manual box. Or perhaps see if you could just make an entire bellhousing out of cutting the auto one off the key is getting the gap right so the input shaft engages as it should...
I'm fairly confident I can have this done very soon, provided I find a good transmission this weekend. I'll likely snag another auto too.
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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dw1603
Part of things
Posts: 591
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I worked for an MB dealership in the 80's and was tasked with collecting a customer's 560 SEC with an inoperative speedometer. When returning the repaired vehicle, I was horrified how quickly I had to drive to achieve the same "warp 9" effect I'd enjoyed on the way in. Your ride should be even quicker.
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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Scoped out some S5S 320Zs and the price is right. The issue I noticed is that bellhousing it molded with the front half of the entire box. You'd be looking at cutting and welding the front of the 722 to that. Not a hard thing to do, probably the easiest option, honestly, but I'd have to pick up a spare 722 just for the sake of having one to cut up outside of the car so I can keep driving it until I do the swap. Of course, even if I was dealing with a removable bellhousing unit like a G265, T5, or T56, I'd likely still just cut the bellhousing off the auto and weld it to the rear half of whatever bellhousing came with the manual box. Or perhaps see if you could just make an entire bellhousing out of cutting the auto one off the key is getting the gap right so the input shaft engages as it should... I'm fairly confident I can have this done very soon, provided I find a good transmission this weekend. I'll likely snag another auto too. I think an adapter plate would work just fine with a molded bellhousing hoenstly, flywheel is custom anyways |
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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You'd have to move the starter to the other side; the way the M117 is shaped, the starter can't sit at the 1 O'clock position (looking from the front of the motor to the rear) like it does on the BMW I6s. Speaking of which, I found it totally bizarre that you have to remove the intake manifold on a E60 535i just to replace the starter!!
I'm still thinking a chop and weld will yield the bellhousing we're looking for, whether it's a detachable one or a molded one.
We'll see what kind of luck I've got tomorrow!
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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You'd have to move the starter to the other side; the way the M117 is shaped, the starter can't sit at the 1 O'clock position (looking from the front of the motor to the rear) like it does on the BMW I6s. Speaking of which, I found it totally bizarre that you have to remove the intake manifold on a E60 535i just to replace the starter!! I'm still thinking a chop and weld will yield the bellhousing we're looking for, whether it's a detachable one or a molded one. We'll see what kind of luck I've got tomorrow! the 1994 530i trans has twin starter ears just like the M117/119 bellhousing. 6 cyl variant won't work. have to remove inlet manifold on most i6s to replace the starter not a bad job, even still. |
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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Only I6s I've ever owned and worked on was my 2.6 M103 and my AMC242 in the Jeep. Those are both super easy to work on, heh.
I'll see what I come across tomorrow. I'm hoping for good news!
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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hooked a G265 for 210 shipped today on a pallet in PA right now. |
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Well, found the above box in a '96 328i, but couldn't pull it. Was sad.
Did get a W201 clutch/brake pedal set! All I need to do with lengthen them a little bit and weld on the lower bracket from the auto brake pedal.
I wish I could find a G265 like you did!
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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nope. thats the 6 cylinder version. I'm referencing the 1994 530i unit (one model only. 94-95 only). |
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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My understanding is that the box in the '96 328i was used in the E36 M3 as well.
Out of about 40 BMWs at the yard, only two where manual! Both E36 3-series.
Edit: Oh, just saw what you had written that it is "like" the M3 box, internally.
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Last Edit: Mar 6, 2016 3:54:15 GMT by Azryael
'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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Stoke8v8
Part of things
Megasquirt M117
Posts: 142
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correct. the E36 M box is shared with
91-95 525i E34
96-99 M3
95 M3
96-99 328i
99-00 328i
01-06 330i
96-00 2.8 Z3
01-02 3.0 Z3
97-00 528i
01-03 530i
possibly 01-03 525i
used in a LOT of cars
BUT, the ONLY one that had a V8 double starter ear bellhousing was the 94-95 530i. internally identical but vastly different on outside.
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76' 240D M117
91' M3 S54
88' M3 S54
87' 325i M54 ZHP
91' 850/6
04' Vespa 200GT
89' 325i coupe eBay turbo project
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So I discovered.
Not sure what other transmissions options we have.
At least I scored that pedal set yesterday.
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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'85 Euro 190E 2.3-16 '84 Euro 500SE ~100k miles '51 Euro 170S M117 Swap Project?! '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport ~42k miles '09 E350 ~51k miles '98 Dodge Durango SLT+ 5.9L Magnum V8 ~Josh |
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