vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 22, 2020 15:59:54 GMT
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Imagine forking out for a new engine and it doing the exact same thing?
Fitting a B series means getting the B compatible bits for the gearbox, or rather the remote clutch housing bit, and that's more difficult than getting an O series engine.
The main problem with the O is a reputation for blowing head gaskets, in part due to poor head castings so the issue is usually in the head rather than the block. There also seems to be an issue with poor quality head gaskets on the market over the last couple of years.
Generally, I'm not finding any info about problems with the bottom end of the O series engine. Princess seem to suffer more from head gaskets, head casting issues, and worn piston rings. Everything else on this set up seems fairly robust and that's another reason for getting into what I've got rather than replacing the whole thing.
It literally could just be a bad head gasket. Or it could be something more serious. Any engine I replace it with could have all the same problems, or none of them. Whatever route I take it's a gamble and right now, tearing into the existing engine and acquiring the tools to do it is at the very least going to set me up with all the gear I need to fit a new engine should I need to.
Still not ruling out buying a new engine, it just seems to make more sense on reflection to investigate the one I've got first and get the new engine if I need it, rather than getting it just in case.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,010
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Oct 22, 2020 17:21:31 GMT
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Sounds like you've made up your mind. Go for it, no need to justify your choices.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Oct 22, 2020 18:38:40 GMT
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I agree, pull the head off see if you can find out why the oil and water are mixing and go from there, the bottom end is based on the B series and cast iron so I would be very suprised if it is warped, you will easily be able to check for bore wear as well.
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Oct 22, 2020 18:48:24 GMT
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It's going to cost you nothing to pull it apart, if you do and it's completely buggered you've lost nothing.
I doubt it is that bad though as you would have noticed massive amounts of wear on the bores or loads of burned oil residue when you had it apart previously.
Did you save then engine from the red car or just the head?
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 22, 2020 18:54:47 GMT
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Just the head, and I still have that. It's actually from the orange car rather than the red one. I wanted to save the gearbox and block from it but circumstances dictated otherwise at the time, simply didn't have the means to save all of it.
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Just to change the subject, although I'd go with the stripdown, today is the birthday of Frederick Lanchester,, English Engineer who built the first British petrol automobile (1896). Happy birthday Fred, and look at the pleasure your work is giving us!  |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 23, 2020 12:26:13 GMT
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Ordered a folding engine crane and folding engine stand. Little bit more expensive to get folding ones, but I need that due to space limitations. Gone with items from www.sgs-engineering.com/ over in Derbyshire, hopefully they're still as good a company to deal with as they used to be, the reviews online seem to think so. Also on order is a gasket set for the clutch housing which has to come off when the engine comes out, and I'm keeping an eye out for pistons, bearings, crankshafts, etc. just in case the ones in my engine are goosed. Not spending on the spinny metal bits until I know the condition of what's in my engine and know whether or not standard or oversized items are required. I'm not planning on any sort of performance upgrades during this job, it's not that sort of a car, so hopefully that's going to save me some grief on parts hunting if I need to. |
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,010
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Oct 23, 2020 12:58:22 GMT
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If you need oversize pistons, shells etc. + machine shop labour, your expenditure will quickly exceed the price of the NOS engine.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 23, 2020 13:00:29 GMT
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That's why I'm not buying those parts until I know they're needed. If they are needed well, then we go back to seeing what's what with a NOS engine. If they're not needed, at least I know all is good inside the existing engine.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,010
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Oct 23, 2020 13:06:04 GMT
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Sounds like a plan! (Assuming the NOS engines are not going anywhere soon.)
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Oct 23, 2020 20:20:30 GMT
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*cough six pot cough*
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Oct 24, 2020 14:16:46 GMT
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I'd go with a new engine, specifically a V8  Mwahahahahaha!!!!! |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 24, 2020 14:46:58 GMT
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Found a break between dry spells to stand in the rain and do the compression test today. Took me a moment to realise I could unscrew the end fitting on the compression tester I bought to get to the smaller fitting and o-ring rather than trying to rely on the rubber cone adaptor, so I'm hoping that has lead to accurate readings. The readings were consistent, so that's good. First job is to take out the spark plugs. 1 (I've numbered the cylinders 1-4 from left to right as you look at the engine from the front, easy for me to remember and not get muddled) was paler than the other three so that's where I expected the problem to be. 3 is a bit of a nuisance to get out, thank goodness for ratcheting spanners.   Workshop manual tells me the compression ratio is 9:1 on this engine and it should be giving me a reading of 170-195psi. Here's what I got. Cylinder - First reading - Second reading 1 - 85 - 80 2 - 158 - 158 3 - 145 - 145 4 - 150 - 150 All those numbers tell me is what I already knew, which is that the head gasket has failed. I'm guessing the low reading on cylinders 2, 3, and 4 is in part due to the blown head gasket and in part due to 40-odd years of wear and tear on things like the piston rings. |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,348
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Oct 24, 2020 15:29:38 GMT
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I would concur with your diagnosis.
😃👍
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,956
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Oct 24, 2020 16:34:21 GMT
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First thing to do while the plugs are out is give it a good crank over and blow all the water out of the cylinder if any is in there, then spray a load of WD40 or similar down the plug hole. Will prevent any corrosion whilst you're getting it out/stripping it which could be the difference between a quick hone and re-ring or a rebore and new pistons.
Has it been overheated before? Can cause the rings to lose tension and not seal correctly even if there's no wear. Compression tests don't normally pick up bad rings particularly well if they're letting oil past.
I'd always go with a recon on a known engine rather than a new one that's been stood for years. We do a fair bit of trade fixing the former for people, even on modern stuff.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 24, 2020 16:47:46 GMT
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It did overheat the first time it did the head gasket on the motorway, but I managed to stop the needle from pegging since I was lucky enough to be right next to a services so basically coasted off and let it cool down. That was back in 2013 or 2014 from memory and it was then fine for ages afterwards with no noticeable increase in oil consumption or drop in compression etc.
Cranking it over today with the plugs out didn't eject any noticeable amount of water, but I'll pop the plug out on 1 and stick some WD40 or similar down the bore just in case. It was running much worse today than it has since popping the head gasket so I don't really want to run it any more until after the engine is out now, feels like it would be tempting fate.
I was reminded that all the while I've had the car there's been visible sealant on the sump-to-block join which suggests there isn't a gasket in there and that someone has probably had this engine out before me for some reason. It'll be interesting to see what we find when I pull this out, and when the engine (whichever one it ends up being) goes back in I do have a proper sump gasket to use rather than the sealant which I hope will cure the oil leak I can't find but suspect is the sump gasket.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:46:42 GMT
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2,3 and 4 don't look too bad, the figures you get vary depending on factors like crank speed, throttle opening etc, I wouldn't be worried if there were 4 like that.
Take plenty of photos of the gasket, head and block before you wipe anything down and some more after it's cleaned up we might be able to give you some pointers.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,282
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Oct 29, 2020 23:07:58 GMT
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 Garage is a little bit cramped now that the new stand and crane have arrived. I've got *just* enough room in front of the Lanchester after having a shuffle of the garage to push the car back to the back wall. If I hadn't gone for the folding crane and stand, there's no way I could store them in the space I have. I've got everything I need to pull the engine out of the Princess now, and indeed will be doing just that if it ever stops raining. |
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,010
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If I hadn't gone for the folding crane and stand, there's no way I could store them in the space I have. You could push the legs under the car and have the arm hang over the bonnet, may take up even less space that way. |
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,348
Club RR Member Number: 64
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I have a very similar design of crane. I have to remove the lifting arm in order to sneak it into its storage space. A minor inconvenience, but it makes it significantly narrower, so well worth doing. I got rid of my engine stand as I don’t have anything light enough (or heavy enough) to go on it, and it was always in the way. 🤣
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Mwahahahahaha!!!!!
