vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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Club RR Member Number: 146
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We have a plan of action, regarding the clutch hydraulics. There's been a huge amount of suggestions over on the brown forum too and it's just a case now of working through the cheapest, easiest jobs and getting progressively more difficult and expensive until I've fixed it. The very first thing is to try and get the air out, if it is trapped air. I'll combine the new hose with leaving the clutch pedal depressed overnight for that one, it's offered success for others. If that doesn't do it then I'll remove and inspect the master cylinder to see what's amiss. Then it will likely be new seals and rebuild time, which could be a couple of hundred quid (send it away to get it done), or a couple of tenners (get lucky finding suitable seals), depending on what's available and needed. The one thing I am reassured of is that it's a different problem to the 1100 since the Princess isn't sucking air in like that is, so hopefully we're just facing a really stubborn air bubble in the system and it's just a case of finding the right way of getting it out. Waxoyling Lyrical: The car came with the Tex mirrors when I bought it and they are the singular most useless mirrors I've ever had the misfortune to use in my life. They look good enough, they're just dreadful, especially at night on the motorway. They did nothing to counteract the massive C pillar blind spot and I still remember pulling out on a Focus that I simply couldn't see. The upgrade to the tiny looking Reguvis wing top mirrors was an improvement, the Tex ones are that bad. The black wing mirrors were even better still, especially for motorway driving. I'm hoping these new Stadium mirrors are the best of the lot since I can adjust them without getting out of the car and they're a comparable field of vision to the black wing mirrors. Time will tell. |
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Yes, they do tend to give a somewhat restricted view and range of adjustment, plus I find they're prone to vibration at certain speeds on my Minor Traveller, but I always hated the look of wing- or bonnet-mounted mirrors.
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saw these and thought of you. they are of course from the highly anticipated 1976 caravan club international road rally.   |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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APPROVED! ---- Right, let's get this clutch hose changed on the 1100 shall we? Little fiddly to remove the old one, and meant unbolting the brand new slave cylinder again. One thing I did notice on removing this is that there was barely any flow of fluid through the pipe so I'm hoping that this really is the issue.  20180206-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Get the new pipe I bought much cheaper than they normally are and not from a reputable 1100 source and... bumhats. Old one on the top in this photo and it's got completely different end fittings. Let this be a lesson to me about going for the cheapest online option.  20180206-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Not to worry, I can't do that job (and it's a bit cold and snowy today anyway, so I don't really want to be doing it if I'm honest), I'll crack on with the interior. Bagged a couple of nasty looking fleece blankets which I've found are ideal for padding on door cards and cheaper than scrim foam for the quantity required.  20180206-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Removing the door cards was fairly easy once I'd figured out that the black trim around the front door release handles is what holds the card in place and can be gently pried out with a skinny screwdriver. The problem is that they're all a little bit damp and wobbly, the driver's door one especially so. I've got them drying out next to the dehumidifier and I suspect I'm going to have to make new cards and cover those, these are not looking too clever. They'll be easy to make, they're a simple design and completely flat.  20180206-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Not the best first fettling day of the year on this car. I'll go and order that clutch hose from a reputable source now, like I should have done the first time. The alternator belt on the Rover has been quite noisy since we got the cold weather and unlike the Princess where it's a case of undoing a bolt or two, pulling the alternator to the desired location to tension the belt and then doing the bolts back up, it's rather more involved on the Rover. First, jack the car up and get it on an axle stand, then unbolt the undertray. My undertray has been split in the centre so you don't have to take the whole thing off, which is handy.  20180206-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Looking up from underneath the car you can see a long rusty looking bolt to the bottom right of this image. That's the tension adjuster bolt. I need to adjust that because the alternator belt has gone just slack enough to screech when it's really cold which is one of the most embarrassing noises an old car is capable of producing.  20180206-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Access is not great. You sort of have to feed a 10mm spanner in behind the front crossmember to get to the bolt. You can get a good amount of turn if you can get your hand and the spanner around the oil filter and if the engine is cool enough that you don't burn yourself on the exhaust manifold, which is what I ended up doing. You can't do this from above because you can't even see the bolt, goodness knows why they put the adjuster underneath like this. You can just make out my white-gloved hand and the head of the spanner either side of the crossmember. That's really as much visibility as you get for this job.  20180206-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr With that tightened up and proper tension restored to the belt, it is pleasantly quiet again. I'm guessing there's just been enough miles on this new belt to stretch it a little, exacerbated by the cold weather since it did shut up once everything had warmed up under the bonnet. I just consider this routine maintenance, really. |
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Phil H
Posted a lot
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Club RR Member Number: 133
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If a job ever required a ratchet spanner....
You aren’t the only one who keeps collecting bits that don’t fit what they are supposed to either. Buy cheap, buy twice?
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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My ratchet spanner was too short, it would have made things a tiny bit easier. Looks like the hose I got is actually for a Mini, not an 1100. What I should have done is take the old one off to compare it with new ones, not sure why I didn't do that.
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We have a plan of action, regarding the clutch hydraulics. There's been a huge amount of suggestions over on the brown forum too and it's just a case now of working through the cheapest, easiest jobs and getting progressively more difficult and expensive until I've fixed it. The very first thing is to try and get the air out, if it is trapped air. I'll combine the new hose with leaving the clutch pedal depressed overnight for that one, it's offered success for others. If that doesn't do it then I'll remove and inspect the master cylinder to see what's amiss. Then it will likely be new seals and rebuild time, which could be a couple of hundred quid (send it away to get it done), or a couple of tenners (get lucky finding suitable seals), depending on what's available and needed. The one thing I am reassured of is that it's a different problem to the 1100 since the Princess isn't sucking air in like that is, so hopefully we're just facing a really stubborn air bubble in the system and it's just a case of finding the right way of getting it out. Waxoyling Lyrical: The car came with the Tex mirrors when I bought it and they are the singular most useless mirrors I've ever had the misfortune to use in my life. They look good enough, they're just dreadful, especially at night on the motorway. They did nothing to counteract the massive C pillar blind spot and I still remember pulling out on a Focus that I simply couldn't see. The upgrade to the tiny looking Reguvis wing top mirrors was an improvement, the Tex ones are that bad. The black wing mirrors were even better still, especially for motorway driving. I'm hoping these new Stadium mirrors are the best of the lot since I can adjust them without getting out of the car and they're a comparable field of vision to the black wing mirrors. Time will tell. There is a trick here that you can try if you are still having problems bleeding the clutch slave cylinder - so before you take it all to bits have a go at reverse bleeding it - forcing the fluid back up into the master cylinder - sounds complex but its quite easy - you need a length of hose that is a tightish fit over the clutch bleed nipple that is long enough to reach the nearest brake calliper bleed nipple - attach the hose to the calliper and secure with a hose clip / tie wrap / copper wire etc - bleed through the hose so that you have fluid to the open end of the hose by opening the calliper bleed nipple then attach utilising the same method to the clutch slave cylinder bleed nipple - then with one person pressing the brake pedal and another opening / closing the bleed nipple on the calliper and keeping a check on the fluid levels you should drive all air out the system - you can also do this without the using brake system if you have pressurised bleeding kit that you can adapt / rig to fit - they are certain vehicles in the market that can only be bled this way - not saying that yours is one of them or that this will work - but it takes little effort and costs peanuts so might be worth the effort before you start spending hard cash on new parts that might not require replacing. |
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Last Edit: Feb 7, 2018 15:24:58 GMT by Deleted
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other method of reverse bleeding (have actually done this on my land rover, where the cylinder is slightly higher than the bleed nipple, i think that's what's called "character") unbolt slave cylinder so dangling on flexi hose, slacken bleed nipple, push slave cylinder back into its bore by hand, ejecting fluid (and air) from nipple, nip your nipple, let it relax back under gravity/sprung pressure. repeat
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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Unfortunately tinker time wasn't to happen today since Mike is unwell and bleeding the system being a two person job, that leaves me a bit stuck. What I have done is wedged the clutch pedal down and I'll leave it there overnight as this has been suggested as being a tried and good method for others. If that fixes it then I only need to reseal the exhaust which is a chore, but not impossible to do on my own if I swear at it enough.
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You want to try adjusting the alternator on a Rover Metro.... now THAT is a fiddle.....
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Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored
Rover 75 - Barge
MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer...
MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored
Project Minion........
Can you see the theme?
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vulgalour
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Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Feb 10, 2018 16:25:59 GMT
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I really don't. Working on a Metro is almost as bad as working on a Mini. --- I tried the cheapest, easiest solution first of wedging the clutch pedal down overnight (actually nearer 24 hours in this instance) and then attempting to bleed the system. The net result of this is that no air came out and the pedal feel was not improved over previous bleeding attempts in the slightest. That's a disappointment, I was hopeful this would work given the reports of success of this method. I didn't attempt a reverse bleed as I don't have suitable hose to do so.  20180210-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Move on to the clutch hose next then since I had a new one that did look identical to mine and was listed as "Princess 1975-1982". Apparently, it's not suitable for this Princess, it's too short to reach the connecting points. Furthermore, I haven't the materials in stock to extend the clutch hard line or the bracket that holds the clutch pipe and hose in place so this was a no go.  20180210-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr On a slightly optimistic note, air flow through the old pipe is partially obstructed by something and fluid flow is very poor. This hints that perhaps it is just the hose that's failed and is the root of the bleed issues. I'll see if my local Pirtek can make me a new one, it shouldn't be hideously expensive providing the end fittings are standard sizes since it's a fairly low pressure pipe this time and quite small. If a new pipe doesn't resolve the issue then it'll be time to take off and inspect the master cylinder for failed seals and if that doesn't appear to be the problem then I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Yes, it is baffling that this is becoming such a difficult problem. Yes, it is frustrating. Yes, I am annoyed by this car. |
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Feb 10, 2018 16:57:56 GMT
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I don't know what your local parts shop is like but mine could look up a suitable hose in a couple of minutes from their books. The end threads are pretty standard so you only need something approx the same length to work.
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vulgalour
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Feb 10, 2018 20:12:00 GMT
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yeah... no. The South is far bettered catered to for this sort of thing than The North. You guys are spoiled.
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vulgalour
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Feb 10, 2018 21:56:14 GMT
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Got a timely reminder from a fellow club member who has a hose, master cylinder and slave cylinder, all of which were functioning fine when removed from a car recently. A car I used to own, in fact, which is now being broken for spares.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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...and another stroke of luck, I hope, in that I stumbled across a brand new listing for a clutch hose with dimensions listed. Application is for Princess 1700, 2000, and Ambassador (all O series, like mine) and the measurements match my original hose. Bought it on the off chance for under a tenner and it should arrive by the end of next week.
The one thing I actually hate about rare old car ownership is the parts dance, it really is a chore.
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Last Edit: Feb 11, 2018 0:18:09 GMT by vulgalour
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,326
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Feb 11, 2018 12:19:05 GMT
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The one thing I actually hate about rare old car ownership is the parts dance, it really is a chore. Amen to that. It’s one reason why I don’t like running any classic as a daily. My Land-Rover does around 5000 miles a year, and parts availability is excellent for something nearly 60 years old, but if I did much more mileage, or couldn’t walk to work in an emergency, then I’d have a modern eco-box for the day-to-day and treat it as disposable. |
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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vulgalour
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Feb 16, 2018 16:10:16 GMT
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Land Rovers are a special case, helped by an inordinately long production run. --- GOOD NEWS! The new clutch hose arrived, this time longer than the original by about the same difference as the last one I bought was shorter. Very odd.  20180216-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Too long is less of a problem than too short at least so I got that fitted and Mike and I bled the clutch hydraulics.  20180216-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Initial signs were very promising with a much better feeling clutch pedal this time around. Started up the car and.... GEARS! Hooray. I then found out just how worn out my old clutch was because on trying to set off I instantly stalled the car. The blowing exhaust wasn't helping that much there either, I'm sure. Next was to noisily pilot it into the unit to see if we could improve the exhaust situation. Mike cracked on with that while I did some other jobs.  20180216-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr To save the old wing mirror holes from snagging on cleaning cloths and clothes and anything else, I fitted some little rubber grommets. I'll weld these holes up eventually, for now this will do.  20180216-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The trim under the glovebox was finally secured. I don't have any of the relevant fixings in stock at the moment so I improvised with some tiny black cable ties, again for the short term. It works, looks tidy, and makes the parcel shelf accessible again.  20180216-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr  20180216-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Trimmed down the bolts for the door mirrors so they sit more securely. They're not bad to drive on, as it happens, the driver's side mirror has a magnifying mirror and they give a reasonable field of vision.  20180216-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The exhaust decided it didn't want to stop blowing at all. We got one side sealed for a few minutes, and then it just started blowing again. I'm giving this job to somebody else to do who I will give money because tbqh I've done faffing about with this stupid design, it's never sealed properly for very long in all the years I've owned it and it's an absolute chore to resolve. Giving it to someone who does exhausts all day for a living will hopefully seal it better. I suspect the exhaust is a cheap aftermarket one that doesn't really fit properly because even by Princess standards mine has been appallingly bad for continuing to blow at the manifold-to-downpipe join. That aside, the drive home was noisy but actually a bit of a revelation. The clutch change has utterly transformed the way the car performs, there's no longer that awkward balancing act when setting off, good progression through the gears and a generally more responsive car off the line even with a badly blowing exhaust. In fact, it's such an improvement I was nearly caught out when I forgot that it's not the Rover and has no power steering, poorer brakes and is, generally, a bigger and older machine. In some ways, I wish I'd done the clutch change when I first got the car, it's clearly needed doing for my entire ownership of the car.  20180216-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Now just to work through the light bulb niggles and book the car in to get the exhaust sorted out by someone else. It felt good to actually drive the car again, allbeit only for a few short miles. |
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Feb 16, 2018 17:14:20 GMT
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I always found on this type of exhaust joint from the manifold to the front pipe on all the transverse engine BLMC range that there was a trick to play - plenty of exhaust paste around the flange ring and a new clamp always helped however more times than enough the paste would be blown out by the exhaust pressure before it had set - so here is the cheat - do has already outlined but before starting the car up - harden the exhaust paste off around the flange with some heat (we just used to use the gas welding torch very carefully) the other problem with the BLMC range and the front pipe joint was if there was too much play in the engine mountings or engine stabilisers hence allowing the engine slop about forward & backward and you stood no chance of keeping the exhaust flange sealed if this was the case.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:22:43 GMT
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I always found on this type of exhaust joint from the manifold to the front pipe on all the transverse engine BLMC range that there was a trick to play - plenty of exhaust paste around the flange ring and a new clamp always helped however more times than enough the paste would be blown out by the exhaust pressure before it had set - so here is the cheat - do has already outlined but before starting the car up - harden the exhaust paste off around the flange with some heat (we just used to use the gas welding torch very carefully) the other problem with the BLMC range and the front pipe joint was if there was too much play in the engine mountings or engine stabilisers hence allowing the engine slop about forward & backward and you stood no chance of keeping the exhaust flange sealed if this was the case. Indeed, my dad suffered with this many times on his Maxi ,turned out in the end the rear engine mount had gone,and the vibrations kept breaking the seal. |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
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Feb 16, 2018 17:27:28 GMT
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Engine mounts don't seem to have excessive play, the engine is pretty stable, and I do have a (home-made, admittedly) stay between the downpipe and engine since my original one is long gone. We've tried silicone, partially curing the exhaust paste, using lots of exhaust paste, foil tape, scrunched up kitchen foil, excessive paste, bolting the manifold to the exhaust and then to the head, fitting the downpipe before and after the rest of the exhaust, wiggling it, jiggling it, swearing at it.... NOTHING works. It either seals for about three months or not at all. It's rubbish.
I'm pretty sure it's just a bad exhaust coupled to a bad design and if I can pay someone else to sort it out with the magic of exhaust fitting experience I'm more than happy to at this point.
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