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Jan 12, 2018 20:05:47 GMT
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I always think they should make the designers work on the cars they design - see if they keep them to the same designs afterwards!! What a curse word job to have to drop the engine. But!! a perfect time to clean & repaint the engine bay
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 12, 2018 20:10:59 GMT
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Oooh, I don't know about repainting, that's a bit drastic.
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Jan 12, 2018 20:44:44 GMT
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mmmmmmm....purple gloss metallic - you know it makes sense!
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Jan 12, 2018 21:51:35 GMT
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That made for very interesting reading, thanks for sharing.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 15, 2018 16:15:04 GMT
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Today was all about the dirt and taking even more things out of the engine bay. This has been both fortuitious and annoying. I wanted to remove the scruffy steel coolant pipe that runs under the radiator both to tidy it up and for better dirt removal access. The first annoyance was the old wire clips which, as is usual, needed cutting off since they're were seized completely solid. I'll be replacing them with jubilee clips as I've done elsewhere when working on the car. 20180115-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr As soon as I removed one of the clips that clamps the pipe to the radiator support brackets, water started coming out. That's not a great thing to have happen and I knew what to expect. Sure enough, there's a big hole caused by corrosion. Even more annoying is my spare pipe I salvaged from the orange car has perforated in the same place to a lesser degree. I'll either get one of the originals repaired or a new one made up in copper or stainless, dependant on cost. I haven't got a pipe bender to DIY this so someone else can make it for me. It's a normal failure on a Princess this one, I've seen a few other cars with the same issue. 20180115-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr After that and moving a few things out of the way, it was the tedious chore of removing the grease. It did look like underseal until I started cleaning it off and found that it's very clearly old engine oil and road grime so at least it wasn't too tough going to remove. There's a few areas where the paint has come off and surface corrosion has started so I'll get those bits dealt with and repainted while I'm in doing the rest of it. I'll also go around with some thinners on a rag to get rid of as much of the rubbish overspray that's all over the engine bay which will go some way to cleaning things up and making it all that bit more uniform. Happily I haven't uncovered any horrors, just bits that need cosmetic fettling. I'll be sticking with beige for now since that's easier, but who knows, maybe we'll go lairy in the future? 20180115-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180115-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180115-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180115-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr It's look much nicer in there now and will be a more pleasant place to work once I'm done. Made a start on the clutch housing but didn't get far, that's fairly disgusting in comparison and will need a fair bit of effort to sort out.
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,417
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Jan 15, 2018 19:05:17 GMT
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Wow, that has made a big difference. So much more pleasant to work in a clean engine bay!
Not that I have much experience, mine is filthy!
Tom
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Jan 15, 2018 22:47:26 GMT
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A clean engine bay, particularly on a lighter coloured car, always makes it much easier to see what you are doing.
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 17, 2018 17:13:51 GMT
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Useful things arrived in the post today in the form of many, many seals and gaskets. 20181701-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Before I can fit those, I need to finish tidying up the engine bay, mostly by getting rid of the woeful overpainting that has been coming off every time I clean up in the engine bay. Now is the best time to get rid of it. I'm not sure what paint was used, it's quite thin in most places and applied by brush. There's no prep underneath but it's pretty stubborn to remove. I was going to use thinners initially but decided on 400 grit paper so I could deal with the rust blebs at the same time and prep the surfaces for fresh paint. 20181701-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr After a while of sanding I'd got about a third of the surfaces cleaned up and ready for the next stage. Nice and smooth now without the multiple paint layers so hopefully I won't get issues with paint reactions when I put the fresh top coat on. 20181701-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr There was a suspiciously thick bit of paint around this area and some surface corrosion. Hit it with a wire wheel to reveal nice clean metal so I'm not really sure what's going on in this area. There's also quite a lot of little dents and paint chips on this arch, I'm guessing from a less than careful engine removal in the past when the clutch was last done since all the damage lines up with bits on the pulley side of the engine. 20181701-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr For ease of access, I removed the heater hoses and unbolted the brake lines. I didn't want to remove the brake lines completely, I'm trying to avoid turning this into restoration work since it's only supposed to be a freshen up while the engine is out. It will all be done more properly if I ever get the funds together for a proper repaint in the future. Just seems silly not to tackle all these scruffy areas while I have good access. All the little bits of corrosion, bad paint and such were cleaned back and flatted down to an acceptable degree before getting a good dose of rust converter. 20181701-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I'm going to have to remove the brake servo and clutch master cylinder to do the paint in that area and since I can do that with the engine back in I'm leaving that corner alone for now. I'll do the inner arch this side before the engine goes back in as it too has that horrible overpaint that needs flatting off, I just didn't have enough time to do that today. 20181701-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr You can see where I've been today at least. Took a few hours because it's all fiddly and has to be done by hand since I don't want to go back to bare metal on this. 20181701-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Tomorrow I'll get the engine mounts removed, degrease anything I've missed and hopefully get the rest of the paint prep completed. I'm going to be slowed down by paint drying times too, it's not too cold for painting, it's just cold enough that drying times are longer than usual. At least there's not really any rust to speak of on the areas left to deal with now. The other job I'll need to do is replacing the coolant hose and I'm going to try using the rubber coolant hose we have with two connectors to link it to the existing rubber hoses instead of getting a custom metal one made. It's not a high pressure system so the clamps and brackets should be sufficient to keep a rubber hose in place and since I've already got the bits to do this the cost is £0 and there's no need to wait on parts or things to be made.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,320
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Jan 18, 2018 14:20:58 GMT
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Regarding the coolant pipe, if you can use both and join them together, why don't you use both and weld them? Admittedly the hose 'N' clamp approach is easier, granted.
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Jan 18, 2018 19:55:00 GMT
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welded water pipe would rust through in minutes. I'd either go copper for cheapness/ease or a bit of stainless tube for longevity. Vulg's remedy will also work fine.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 18, 2018 20:33:15 GMT
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Neither pipe is in great condition overall, There's probably enough for me to salvage connection sections for the rubber hose idea, but that's it. I checked them over and there's a lot more pitting and perforation than I first thought so they're mostly scrap. Still useful to make a copy from in the same shape if I do go with a bent pipe, but not really any use beyond that.
No painting or anything at all at the unit today, we got some snow and temperatures were just too low to really do anything. I can't keep the temperature high enough in the unit for long enough to risk putting paint on so I'm hoping it's a bit warmer tomorrow.
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2018 20:33:41 GMT by vulgalour
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Jan 18, 2018 21:38:03 GMT
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even a length cut out of 10 quid motorfactors exhaust section with nearly correct bends would be an upgrade (no idea of the complexities of the shape, cant see from the photos, just brain farting out loud) paint the outside, coolant mix will stop inside rusting. ( i mean the block is iron, right ? how can a steel hose "rust in minutes" ? )
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2018 21:41:11 GMT by darrenh
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Jan 18, 2018 23:47:18 GMT
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Welded bits seem to rust really badly just at the edge of the weld so it's asking for trouble in a known trouble area. Inside of blocks rust pretty well too, just they are thick enough to cope.Antifreeze is a good inhibitor as long as it's changed every couple of years.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Normally, the coolant is done annually on this one, more frequently in recent years because of the work being done. Previous owners certainly weren't so dilligent, especially if the state of what came out the first time i did it was anything to judge by! Really, the pipe would be better being in something not-steel because it rots out where it clamps against a steel bracket so even if it's good on the inside, it's a moisture trap in an area you can't see on the outside too. Not the best design, were it done now I expect it would be plastic and rubber throughout to avoid the issue.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 19, 2018 17:36:51 GMT
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There's still snow, but it's not snowing, and the snow was melting so I chanced a few hours at the unit today since I'm desperate to get the Princess mobile again. MoT is in April and I feel like I've barely driven it since the last one! Should be an easy pass then, right... right? Probably. I removed the air horns and the wiring loom that was in the way. Going to need some fresh P clips and screws to put the loom back in as the old ones mostly fell to bits on removal, at least removing them allowed me to get to the little rust blebs underneath them and deal with those. I remembered to take the car's original head in with me so I could get the little cam cover bracket off as the replacement head doesn't have one. Once I've cleaned it up I'll probably redo it in VHT silver so it blends in with the aluminium head nicely. 20180119-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Removed all the engine mounts, laid them out on the box lid so I know which ones go where, and they'll get degreased before being fitted. Apart from the big steel washer, nothing needs painting on these since they're lovely cast aluminium and big chunky rubber bushes. I'll just scrub them clean and repaint the washers black so they look nice and smart again. 20180119-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I gave the thinners a go on what paint was left to remove and it made the job a bit quicker than what I'd done already, mainly because the remaining overpaint was very thin. Dosed up the freshly cleaned areas with rust converter which stopped me being able to paint the front sections today. It already looks much better, just for being cleaned of dirt and flakey paint. 20180119-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Temperature was touch-and-go as to whether or not I could risk repainting the bulk of the engine bay once I'd finished the laborious task of masking off the brake lines. I decided not to mask off the displacer adaptors since they're bare steel and a little extra protection certainly wouldn't hurt, but I did mask off the schrader valves so at least it looks like I give half a hoot about this job. Then it was a tentative spraying of zinc rich primer (which I've found is great at slowing down rust on BL stuff compared to regular primer) to see if the temperature was okay before risking some top coat. The paint behaved fairly normally going down but the temperature had dropped a lot by the time I was finished so I may come to this tomorrow and find it's all a mess. Time will tell. 20180119-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180119-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180119-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr It looks so much better now. When I unbundle the newspaper from that corner it's going to stick out like a sore thumb, I'm just not prepared to dismantle my braking system to do that area at the moment, especially since it can be done once the engine is back in.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 20, 2018 18:32:20 GMT
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Fortunately when I checked on the paint today it wasn't too bad. There's a couple of less-than-perfect spots, but that's okay, this is only a freshen up. I gave the whole engine bay a warm over with a heat gun before applying the final coat of beige and more heat gun just to help things along. For the most part this worked really well and with the heater on in the unit and temperatures above freezing for a few hours it meant the paint was even hard enough to start on the next phase: assembly. First up, let's get those engine mounts and brackets degreased. A thankless, disgusting job if ever there was one. Definitely worth doing, all the same, since it will make maintenance and leak spotting much easier. 20180120-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr There's a handful of rubber items I need to de-paint which I'll do at home as I'd left the thinners there instead of taking them to the unit with me. Won't take long to do and will improve the look of these considerably. The horseshoe shaped piece is the rubber insert for the cold air intake pipe bracket while the two little acorn type things are the bonnet bumpstops. 20180120-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Lots of time spend with degreaser, a toothbrush, the desk grinder wire wheel thingy and VHT silver to get all four engine mounts and bracketry nice and smart again. I opted not to repaint the washers on the engine mounts because they look okay enough next to the rubber mounts as they are. The cam cover bracket spruced up really easily. Wiring loom was rerouted loosely, I couldn't find the P-clips to replace the ones that broke. I may do a little bit of extra wrapping to tidy up a couple of wires and attempt to improve the look of the wiring in the engine bay, it's fairly messy on the O series cars as standard, especially when compared to an earlier B series car. 20180120-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Unmasked everything, reinstated the heater hoses with new jubilees, the washer bottle and pump, and the large cold air intake pipe and coolant pipe bracket that I repainted in VHT silver like the rest. 20180120-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I'm actually quite proud of this job, for a 'quick freshen up' it looks so much better than I expected. Even the brake component corner isn't as terrible as I feared it might be. 20180120-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr We're now on reassembly, which is always much more enjoyable than the pulling apart and cleaning bit. I'm hoping the job goes fairly smoothly from this point and I'm excited to see what the engine bay will look like with everything all properly cleaned up and presented nicely.
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Jan 20, 2018 21:11:24 GMT
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Well done looks fab
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 21, 2018 16:12:30 GMT
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Mike and I braved the cold to see if we could make some progress on this job. We were hampered somewhat by the heater running out of fuel so didn't get massively far. Importantly, we did get the old clutch off which was fairly easy, here it is on the left next to the new one. 20180121-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Release bearing off too (old on the right). 20180121-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr It is fair to say the clutch is dead, almost down to the rivets in fact. 20180121-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Other things of note is that the release bearing has significant amounts of play in it and the rattle that the old clutch made when the hydraulics were bled was the splined hub being loose. I got just about as much use out of the old clutch as I think was possible as a result, so this was definitely an unavoidable job. One nice thing on checking the new clutch over was that it's stamped "Fly Wheel Side" so you can't get it in the wrong way around. I've never seen this before and it's super sensible! 20180121-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Got the new kit bolted loosely in place once I'd checked that it absolutely definitely matched the old one. I've got a little bit more fiddling about to do before we align and tighten this up fully but at least now it's ready to go for the next stage. Mike spent as much time as the temperature would allow to clean and wash out the inside of the clutch housing, which I don't have a photo of, and we called it quits when the snow started coming down along with the temperature! 20180121-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr One item added to the shopping list is a new rubber boot for the clutch arm that goes through the housing. This old one is not only covered in overspray but also degraded and crumbly, it barely keeps anything out. If anyone has one up for grabs, please let me know. 20180121-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180121-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Then it was time to down tools and go home because the unit was icy cold and the snow was getting heavier. We didn't want to end up with cars stuck in the icy car park outside the unit so Mike and I made a hasty retreat home. Rover's pretty good in the snow and ice really. It would benefit from some winter tyres, the ones fitted aren't so great when the temperature gets as low as it is today. 20180121-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180121-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,271
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jan 23, 2018 19:42:02 GMT
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I did many hours of work yesterday so I could get a larger chunk of time in on the Princess today. Pretty worn out as a result. First job was getting the clutch fastened in place properly once it was aligned. The clutch alignment tool we have is too short for the Princess' clutch so I improvised with various suitable diameter tools to get it in the right place. 20170123-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr A lot of time was spent between Mike and I scrubbing off grime and grease and scraping off old gasket material to prepare the gearbox housing components for reassembly. To make sure all was healthy, Mike wanted to make sure the bearings weren't dry and followed instructions in the manual to set about removing a bearing to repack with grease, before realising it could just be oiled because of how everything works. We then couldn't get the bearing to seat back in fully and don't have a press, so he's going to sort this out tomorrow. The parts all look lovely and clean now at least, we just couldn't get the gearbox back together because of this. Rookie error because it's a weird gearbox and we're both new to this particular design, the manual makes it very easy to get *too* involved in a job. 20170123-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The cold air feed bracket I'd previously repainted now has the rubber insert refitted and the cold air intake pipe in place. I need to replace the rubber insert because it has some historic damage and that pipe could do with being replaced too because someone in the past has brush-painted just the top surface with silver paint. It's a bit too fragile to clean and since it's spiralised ducting I'm hoping I can just buy a length of generic replacement in black or silver. 20170123-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Some of the old wiring loom wrap had come undone so I re-wrapped that. I then did some wire tidying and used some tiny cable ties just to get everything more respectable. This has to be the first time the engine bay wiring has ever actually looked tidy in my ownership. 20170123-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr When we measured up the rubber radiator hose to replace the damaged steel coolant pipe we found it was too short. Instead, I chopped out the worst part of the old pipe, repainted it with some VHT silver and bridged the missing section with the radiator hose that happened to be exactly the right diameter for the job. 20170123-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20170123-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Ah yes, and the radiator went back in! It's not in the way of the engine when fitted and I reckon it will be a lot easier to put in now than when the engine is in. Before fitting, the Rover 400 fan (bubble type, not R8) it was wearing was removed (but not binned, because it still works really well and is a good back-up). Before that, the spare original radiator fan was tested and found to be working well, the fixings were a bit stubborn and since I want to get the radiator refurbished in the future I decided not to fight with it and just get it back in the car for now. One very odd thing about the radiator - which was salvaged from the orange Princess I broke a few years ago - is that someone had chopped the plug off and twisted the wires back together to reverse the fan. This would mean the fan was pulling hot air out of the engine bay, through the radiator, and trying to expel it out of the front of the car because the fan was fitted in the factory location when I removed it. That's UTTERLY baffling. Mike corrected it and resoldered the joints properly. He had to use loom wrap as we'd run out of heatshrink. 20170123-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr There was a bit of faff figuring out which side it went to and getting the bolts to line up, the radiator and fan together are a very tight fit but the dipstick and distributor are much more accessible with the factory fan installed. 20170123-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Frustratingly close to done now. It is at least just a case of bolting things back together, there's very little cleaning to do and only one engine bracket left to paint. One more long afternoon and it should be sorted. 20170123-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
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Last Edit: Jan 23, 2018 19:47:31 GMT by vulgalour
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Jan 23, 2018 20:30:54 GMT
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Looking a lot better - here's a couple of sites that might help you both now & in the future Try here for your air ducting (plus loads of other stuff) : https: //www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/ducting-aluminium-ducting-2 And here for any original small clips / fastenings etc: bresco.com/
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