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Sept 5, 2014 16:07:10 GMT
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Looking at one local to me, but know butkiss about them.
Is is the same engine as the 207 Gti? Whats the difference between the two?
Is the engine able to be modified for power simply?
How to they handle on the roads compared to newer hot hatches, such as the Clio 172 / 207 Gti180 / Fiesta ST?
Ive wanted one for years and I'm considering it.
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Sept 5, 2014 16:29:05 GMT
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nice car, though getting on a bit now and most of had a hard life.
engine is the 2.0 xu engine 16 valve (not the same as the 207 that is an EW engine)
cam belt failure s common as the orginal interval was 72k but many failed a long time before then, the later spec was 32k and that is also what most independants recommend.
if the belt has failed and the head hastnbeen properly repaired it will sound like an industrial sewing machine, its not as easy as just replacing the belt as most of the time valves are bent even if they look straight, very few people have the skill or knowledge to repair the heads properly.
they suffer the same rear beam wear that all peugeot of that era have and thats worn bearings which lead to the wheel tops pointing inwards.
tuning, its a failry highly strung engine and yes gains can be had from filters and exahusts they are minimal, tbs and cams are needed to get close to 200bhp , its failry common to super charge them with a few off the shelf kits avaiable
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 5, 2014 21:48:40 GMT
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I have owned a number of 306s and PSA GTis (including a GTi-6) and have known a couple of mates to own the competitors. So, what problems can they have? Engine: - The engine is different to the 206 ownwards. It was one of the last Peugeots to use the XU (petrol) series engine which had served many other Pugs quite well.
- Cambelts need changing every 40k. Initially, Peugeot said 72k but a number of them failed before then (possibly due to age). Peugeot and aftermarket (O.E) kits are different. As long as you stick to 40k and a Dayco, Gates or INA kit you shall be fine.
- The cam timing really does need to be set correctly. This is seldom the case, either from a result of 'old school techniques' (the 'Tippex' method lead to many GTi-6s with bent valves) in addition to a lack of understanding (the bottom crank pulley damper can slip. As a result of the pulley having a reference point for the crank beyond the bonded part, distastrous results can occur (the keyway of the crank does line up with some castings on the engine (Google will show you here). This is not all that different to modern cars and it can affect MPG and power delivery. Alloy pulleys (which were sold by RichW (the same Supercharged conversion chap) are one way to ensure this does not happen
- Engine mounts can be a little soft. IME aftermarket ones (even Lemforder) will go again in 10,000 miles of enthusiastic driving. Either going genuine, Poly, or for a Group N bottom mount (the latter two can add vibration at idlebut they do improve the driving experience (tighter gear changes and an engine which will not dance around) will help matters here
- Poor MPG tends to be down to poor CTS and lambda sensorsli]
Suspension - IMO (and a certain specialist to a degree) on genuine Peugeot stuff or Bilstein B6s will do. The rear dampers were made by PeugeotSport and the Bilstein B4s were considered a downgrade (as per the 205). Going by a previous but different car I'd agree with that, and by how my 205 handles now
- Rear beam bushes can be the difference between a 306 that tries to swing you into a hedge and one which keeps you on the road. If you don't mind a little noise I'd personally go for solid Group A mounts (they made a huge difference on my 205 which has very similar mounts)
- Front lower arm bushes can wear badly. Aftermarket ones seem to last a short while or perish swiflty. Motaquip items are meant to be cheap and effective. Meyle HD items may be another avenue
Interiors: - As lovely as the Alcantara seats look they can wear badly. Generally speaking the Phase 1 seats were the comfiest and IMO the most stylish in addition to being quite supportive
- They are larger than you think inside (for boot and interior space, especially when being used) for a small car
Other - Peugeots are generally OK on rust but I would still keep an eye on the sills all round in addition to the inside of the C-Pillars and boot floor
- Door looms can go meaning that the central locking, windows etc. can all get a little intermittent in operation (mine was fine as were my friends)
- It may have been wrapped aroudn a tree! Ensure it is not too bent!
- The clutches can be notoriously heavy on them. IME they are always a little on the heavy side (they are quite a large clutch for the car, so they do last a while!), but if it is excessively heavy the culprit can be the adjuster on the clutch cable drying out, or stiff clutch fork bushes within the gearbox.
I quite enjoyed mine despite some haters. The engine pulled well (I got a 15.6 1/4 mile from a 167BHP car down Avon Park), and it was a good steer, with good steering feedback (it can be a little heavy for some) and good road manners. Tuning them for power can become expensive as said above. The last time I checked a supercharger conversion was over £2.4k. Saying that, if handling is what you are after in addition to a little extra pace I would personally look at a Renault Clio 172, even if the steering feel is a little off. They can have large bills of their own though (Cambelts being one of them). |
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Last Edit: Sept 5, 2014 21:53:40 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 6, 2014 11:31:40 GMT
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Thanks for the amazing reply - ive been stunted with the dephaser problem on a scenic and the price of a cambelt change was so restrictive, even as preventative maintenence on a new car. When the car is about £1500 anyway £400 for a cambelt kit is extortionate.
I do really like them and fancy one to death. The 172s are still a higher price for one that hasnt been chavved and thrashed to death, but then i guess by this point most gti6's will have had their fill.
I would probably change the cambelt on it within a week of buying it which seems to be what most like to do. The kits arent that expensive and the peace of mind would be ideal. There is a local one to me I'm tempted to go and have a test drive of, however its peuce yellow (gold).
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Sept 6, 2014 17:22:19 GMT
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They handle very good!! The engines are very tuneable indeed!! I've just dropped one in to my 205 and have forged it up with upgraded drivetrain and bolted a huge GT3071r turbo on. She's nearly ready to rock and roll for the track!!
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Sept 6, 2014 19:58:08 GMT
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Sept 9, 2014 10:53:09 GMT
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Just a quick note, the xsara VTS is the same car underneath...though appears to be quite rare nowadays.
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Sept 9, 2014 12:35:38 GMT
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Not quite the same car but very close, enough differences to make them feel quite different to drive.
Quicker steering rack (2.4 vs 3.6)
20mm lower, stiffer springs all round and more rear toe in, same roll bars and brakes, 5 speed box.
later xsaras had a different ecu, two lambda sensors, these ones are much better on fuel.
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Sept 9, 2014 14:33:20 GMT
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Not quite the same car but very close, enough differences to make them feel quite different to drive. Quicker steering rack (2.4 vs 3.6) 20mm lower, stiffer springs all round and more rear toe in, same roll bars and brakes, 5 speed box. later xsaras had a different ecu, two lambda sensors, these ones are much better on fuel. Sounds like you've driven both? Which was better? |
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Sept 9, 2014 14:55:57 GMT
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Unfortunately I have never driven the xsara personally, I have its lighter sharper predecessor the zx 16v, which has the same springs all round but zero rear toe so turn in is sharp as anything, very pointy, mine would have had the 155bhp engine same as the s16, though it has a mildly tuned j4rs engine instead, its also 60kg lighter.
Soon to be running bodies as pictured in my avatar
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Sept 9, 2014 15:41:07 GMT
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We have had a 306 GTI at our house  plus two 172s a Xzara, two other Clio's, 106, Saxo and a C5 So all I can say is get a Frenchie |
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Last Edit: Sept 9, 2014 15:43:19 GMT by ontheedge
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Sept 9, 2014 19:14:50 GMT
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We have had a 306 GTI at our house plus two 172s a Xzara, two other Clio's, 106, Saxo and a C5 So all I can say is get a Frenchie What do you think aboout the 306 vs the 172? I'm on the hunt. |
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Sept 10, 2014 9:49:52 GMT
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Is there a reason your not considering a 106 Gti/Saxo VTS? There is also a very nice AX Gti for sale on here currently which is very similar to the aforementioned cars.
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