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Jun 24, 2014 10:52:20 GMT
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There was probably nothing wrong with it. Cat C would probably have been a bit of panel damage and maybe a new spring/shock absorber and wishbone.
If it's Cat C it means it's successfully passed a strict VIC check and is 100% safe and road worthy and if that happened 17 years ago and it's still going strong I'd say a very good job was done.
There's thousands of cars out there which have been damaged or badly repaired, but have never been recorded. The fact it's Cat C means nothing really apart from it will have some impact on resale value.
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 Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Jun 24, 2014 11:01:16 GMT
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there is no way of finding out if it has ever had a roadworthiness VIC since it was written off.
As said above: If it's Cat C it HAS to have had a strict VIC check before the V5 can be re-applied for and it can be MOT'd and returned to the road. If it's Cat D it doesn't require a VIC check because it's deemed unnecessary, typically because the damage sustained is purely cosmetic. We repair Cat C and D cars all the time. My 2009 Jaguar XKR is Cat D and was purely cosmetic damage plus a damaged gearbox cooler. I have a 2003 BMW Z4 which was purely cosmetic damage and is Cat D. My daily work hack BMW MINI Cooper was purchased as a Cat D and all that had was a dent on the bonnet. It failed the MOT on headlight alignment, so I just knocked the dent out enough for it to pass and still haven't repaired it properly yet, but no one can believe a car would be written off for a little dent, but that's what happens. A lot of people wouldn't bother putting a claim in and the damage would never be recorded! If it's recorded it's a good thing from a safety point of view, not a bad thing. A cobbled up repair or a cut and shut would not pass a VIC check! |
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Jun 24, 2014 11:16:32 GMT
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vic check has nothing to do with roadworthiness.
all they check is the identity. one of our cars is cat c, I've not even repaired it, had scuff on bumper and dented rear arche.
vosa said it should never of been a c, all they worry about is that its not a ringer etc.
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Jun 24, 2014 11:21:30 GMT
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^^^ He's right, theres nowt strict about a VIC check
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Jun 24, 2014 11:22:57 GMT
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suppose it helps if people knew what vic stood for!!!!!! lol
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Jun 24, 2014 11:25:15 GMT
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I've only ever bought Cat D's personally (repaired plenty of CAT C's though), so not gone through the Cat C System, but always thought the check included what was like an IVA test, but just checked it out and it's just to check it's not a ringer, which is the main thing.
Still, if it's passed however many MOT's since it was written off and is still going strong it doesn't matter a jot.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Jun 24, 2014 11:52:26 GMT
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Appreciate the advice and comments on the CAT C thing.
The car is still for sale. Ebay buyers wife has put her foot down!
I have changed the price slightly since sleeping on the issue a bit but basically I'm firm on £600 for a quick and easy sale to the first person at my door.
I'll put it back on ebay soon also.
Just to clarify it's an excellent car nothing wrong with it to drive but priced to sell given its history.
Thanks, |
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Jun 24, 2014 11:57:32 GMT
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by law you don't have to tell a person its cat c, but if they ask you then must tell them.
it should state it on front of v5c.
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Jun 24, 2014 12:07:32 GMT
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No details of the CAT C on the V5 at all which is the weird thing.
Is it possible the car history check database is wrong? |
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Jun 24, 2014 12:43:11 GMT
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No details of the CAT C on the V5 at all which is the weird thing.
Is it possible the car history check database is wrong? It should have something on the V5 if it's Cat C Cat D's don't have anything, but still shows up on checks and needs to be declared when selling etc. As for insurance I have heard people say it's put their insurance up, but I've never used a company where that has happened. |
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Jun 24, 2014 14:20:11 GMT
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I've never been asked if a car was previously written off when insuring something. I thought it was up to them (the insurer) to check that out?
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Jun 24, 2014 14:33:33 GMT
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So I've looked into this a bit more with the DVLA.
In the eyes of the law this car is not really a CAT C apart from on some stupid insurance database.
In 1997 no VIC check was required to put a car back on the road after any kind of insurance write off so due to the law at the time of the incident the car was allowed to be put back on the road without any red tape.
It didn't need a VIC then and doesn't need one now and so is perfectly legal and insurable.
I think the advice given by the insurance company is considering a car written off as CAT C today which does not have a VIC. In that case of course it would need one to be insurable and legal and as a result would have a marker on the V5. My car has no marker because the VIC check scheme had not come into law in 1997.
If it was me insuring the car now given what I've just heard from the adviser at the DVLA the car has already been through the system (dodged the system if you like because it was 1997 and no such thing was required) I do not think there is any need to declare this car as previously written off.
I think we've found a sort of retro dvla/insurance grey area!
In essence to clear up this sort of thing although it would be totally impractical, the DVLA should set a VIC marker against any car that has a CAT C in its history if it was written off at any date before the VIC check became law. There could be millions of cars on the roads which were CAT C and never had to be checked to be put back on the road. The problem being as with my car is nobody knows where they stand from a safety point of view.
Anyway in a nutshell given the details in the thread I would suggest that if you buy my car there is no legal requirement to disclose this to the insurance company. |
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Jun 24, 2014 14:41:08 GMT
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there is no way of finding out if it has ever had a roadworthiness VIC since it was written off.
As said above: If it's Cat C it HAS to have had a strict VIC check before the V5 can be re-applied for and it can be MOT'd and returned to the road. If it's Cat D it doesn't require a VIC check because it's deemed unnecessary, typically because the damage sustained is purely cosmetic. We repair Cat C and D cars all the time. My 2009 Jaguar XKR is Cat D and was purely cosmetic damage plus a damaged gearbox cooler. I have a 2003 BMW Z4 which was purely cosmetic damage and is Cat D. My daily work hack BMW MINI Cooper was purchased as a Cat D and all that had was a dent on the bonnet. It failed the MOT on headlight alignment, so I just knocked the dent out enough for it to pass and still haven't repaired it properly yet, but no one can believe a car would be written off for a little dent, but that's what happens. A lot of people wouldn't bother putting a claim in and the damage would never be recorded! If it's recorded it's a good thing from a safety point of view, not a bad thing. A cobbled up repair or a cut and shut would not pass a VIC check! VIC = Vehicle Identity Check and that is all they check nothing else it tells you nothing about a vehicles safety what so ever, please don't give out duff information. Also it doesnt always say on the v5 if it is a total loss, that is hit and miss. Insurance companies do seem to be checking cars past out more now, but asking for a report or vic pass cert from 17 years ago is ridiculous, the rules on write offs were completely different back then. |
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Jun 24, 2014 15:00:53 GMT
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One thing I was going to say, which appears to be backed up by the above, but I wasn't at all sure about, just an observation...
I go to a number of classic car auctions and they run all the lots they get in through Experian and any that come up on the database and any that are damaged repaired are noted in the catalogue, and all older repairs (1990's and earlier) have all as far as I've seen been "Cat C" and no "Cat D", leading me to believe that something in the rules had changed at some point, but then I'm sure 20 years ago no one would dream of writing off 95% of the cars which are "Cat D" today.
EDIT: just to add that hardly any of the owners of the cars recorded on the database at these auctions were aware of it until the check showed it up.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Jun 24, 2014 15:02:08 GMT
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PM sent
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ken707
Part of things
Posts: 15
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Jun 24, 2014 17:21:26 GMT
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I have an old 98 Xsara in my garage, owned from new. In 2008 I damaged the rear slightly, tail light, bumper and minor denting. My Insurer wanted to write it off but I accepted cash in lieu and repaired it using s/h parts but it was classed as cat C. I argued with the engineer (I also worked for the Insurer) but he said most older cars were classed as C rather than D.
Lots of minor flood damage cars were C, as are theft recoveries, the whole system is a mess. I sometimes think the salvage buyer is in on the act to get them a category worse to buy cheaper.
I wouldn't buy a C which was damaged early in it's life as that damage was often substantial.
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1993 Cav Turbo
1993 205 GTI
1988 Uno Selecta
1978 Fiat 128 3p
1974 Droopsnoot Firenza
1972 2.3 Firenza Sport SL
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Well car was sold at the weekend to Mark a great genuine buyer and man of his word.
Which is more than can be said of one of our fellow members Dublee.
If he ever contacts you about buying your car or buys your car on ebay watch out as he is a genuine messer and has cost me money and time and has left me negative feedback on ebay for no reason.
He clicked buy it now on my car, found that he couldn't get it insured (which he then posted about on this thread and since deleted his comments).
I said fair enough and he offered to pay my ebay costs.
More recently he has raised a complaint on ebay about me saying that the reason he didn't buy the car was that I had contacted him after he clicked buy it now to demand more money for the car than he had agreed to pay. Totally and utterly untrue.
Total joker with behaviour I have found to be genuinely weird
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Good work man. I'm glad its found a new home and not ended up in bits.
As for dublee, what a clunge. I've never met you but the way you handled the 'Cat C' thing tells me you are not out to flam anyone. The guy's probably still in the mid/late stages of adolescence and therefore doesn't know WTF he's doing.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Appreciate the vote of confidence xbo11ox.
The whole saga has ended up with a light at the end of the tunnel.
Got my new wheels today, bit less retro than normal but is amazing what £600 will buy these days.
Just picked up a 1 owner Mercedes 230CLK with a full MB dealer history and 12 months MOT. I have to declare its a huge amount of car for the money. Front arches need a bit attention but should tidy up very nicely.
Better still though, got talking to the dealer I bought the Merc off about old cars and he has agreed to show me around his private collection of classics in some barn somewhere. Apparently 38 cars collected over 35 years including a Lamborghini Muira which he bought in 1978 for £1800!
Obviously looking fwd to that and will post some pics if he lets me take some. |
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oldisbetter
Part of things
If it has a ECU it's complicated :)
Posts: 478 
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Nice to see this has sold and not ended up as parts, well done for saving it
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