sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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The story starts about a week ago, with me struggling to repair my modern Rover 75 daily driver again, this time the alternator had packed up, and it required the almost complete destruction of the front end to gain access to remove it. Struggling with all the broken plastic trim clips got me thinking, I want something else older and easier to fix. For whatever reason I went straight on ebay and started looking at SD1's, seeing whats available, conditions and values, with a mind to save some money and buy one later in the summer as another toy. The idea was to buy a good condition runner, that would only need servicing and cavity waxing so I could start driving it immediately This all ended late Tuesday night when I spotted one about an hours drive from me, non-runner, but my favourite colour, and also with the Vitesse kit on it which I wanted, except the engine which had a set of carbs layed over the top. A quick phonecall with the seller got me hooked, so some phonecalls later a mate offered to go up Wednesday night with the trailer to have a look with me 'just in case' Fast forward 24hrs from when I first spotted the ad to 9pm I was back home First things that jumped out were the Stromberg's needed a lot of work to get running, the front panels desperately need paint on them, the bottoms of the doors all require attention and there's a few water leaks so the carpets are damp in places. Apart from a that, the main body looked very solid, the interior good, and most of the electrics appear to be working. All in all, not a bad purchase for being the first one I looked at, in the rain, at night!
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Last Edit: Mar 11, 2018 15:31:31 GMT by sowen
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 863
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Nice - are you going to put the injection system back on it?
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Nice - are you going to put the injection system back on it? It's actually a Vanden Plas with most of the Vitesse kit on it, but the plan is to drop the hotwire injection system on as I reckon it's more reliable. What I don't know is if it's meant to have been a factory efi car or not. Everything I've read says it should have injection, but 30 years later, two resprays and however many enthusiasts owning it, I think I'll make it my own
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Mar 30, 2014 22:55:42 GMT
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The next morning was the first opportunity to have a look at the SD1 in daylight and assess my purchase. A few spares came with it in the boot The front wings need attention before the rust gets any further into the metal I have no idea how the computer works, or if it works, but it's dead cool! Rear arches were a bit flaky, but didn't crunch when poked and prodded with my screwdriver I couldn't leave it to just the screwdriver to hunt for rust, so out with the wire wheel The passenger front door had an enormous rust scab peeking through from under the rubbing strip, so I carefully prised that off then took the wire wheel to the side of the door Under the layers of filler were a couple of holes, not suprised, but another part of the bodywork that needs sorting. I'm not in a position right now to do a full body restoration, so I've gone over the rear arches with a bit of Kurust, zinc primer and some satin black to help slow the deterioration down until when I get round to doing the welding work From what I've found so far, I need to replace both rear arches, repair, re-skin or replace the doors, remove the front wings and weld them on properly, and find out where the water is getting into the dashboard! The rest of the bodyshell so far appears to be in excellent shape for a 30 year old car!
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Last Edit: Sept 19, 2017 21:46:31 GMT by sowen
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Mar 30, 2014 23:00:51 GMT
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Best of luck with it, hopefully that's the worst of the rot. Nice big buses these
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Club Retro Rides Member
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 863
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The presence of the fuel computer tells you that this was originally an injection engine. I believe it uses signals from the ECU.
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Last Edit: Mar 31, 2014 5:30:43 GMT by squonk
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Best of luck with it, hopefully that's the worst of the rot. Nice big buses these So far, externally it's just those bits I've found plus a few small scabs which I will attack with a dremel. Next area to check which does concern me is under the carpets in the cabin, the carpets are damp with all the rain we've had recently, so they need pulling out to dry off, and also take the headlining out to see where the water is coming from. I reckon it's at the point where to make it last another 30 years I need to take the entire shell back to bare metal inside and out, but in the meantime I'll be doing the running repairs with it in a roadworthy state. The presence of the fuel computer tells you that this was originally an injection engine. I believe it uses signals from the ECU. That's what I was thinking, there are some electrical bits I think that were meant to hang off the Stromberg's, need to have a look at those at some point, and also have a look underneath the fuel tank, see if there used to be an external pump fitted. It's a 30 year old car, who knows what's been pillaged over the years! Anyway, a Discovery hotwire system should sit right at home on top of the engine, unless I take the plunge and drop an entire 3.9 serpentine lump in
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That is glorious...!!! I just love these machines...
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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breng
Part of things
Posts: 223
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Wait until you really start poking around - you may be shocked at what you find.
Your car is'nt too bad really - my VDP EFi was much much worse! Needed inner and outer sills, a front wing, wheel arch, much of the boot floor and inner arches were repaired as well.
What I did'nt factor in was that replacing so much metal meant that a full paint job would be needed.
I can only presume your car has the stromberg carbs purely to get it running - have you checked it still has the correct motor (for a vitesse) with 9.75:1 compression.
I would check - many no longer have their original engines.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Wait until you really start poking around - you may be shocked at what you find. Your car is'nt too bad really - my VDP EFi was much much worse! Needed inner and outer sills, a front wing, wheel arch, much of the boot floor and inner arches were repaired as well. What I did'nt factor in was that replacing so much metal meant that a full paint job would be needed. I can only presume your car has the stromberg carbs purely to get it running - have you checked it still has the correct motor (for a vitesse) with 9.75:1 compression. I would check - many no longer have their original engines. It's not a genuine Vitesse, but a Vanden Plas with almost all the Vitesse spec stuff fitted (good enough for me), I just want to finish the conversion off. The engine is a 9.35 carb lump, I don't remember seeing the notches for the injectors in the heads when I swapped the SU's on to get it running so I think the engine is a genuine carb'd lump, but there's still a question of is the car itself meant to be carb or efi. It's registered August '84, but I'm told efi was standard on the Vanden Plas from about June '84, just need to check to see if there was an external pump fitted before. I've had a good poke with the screwdriver already, so really the only thing left to do is lift the carpets to see how bad the internal surfaces are. Sills are excellent, except the last 8 inches or so before the rear arches, the seams haven't even blown apart! Plan is to take it back to bare metal inside and out in the future, so getting the structure right and sorting the leaks is high priority.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Mar 31, 2014 10:06:55 GMT
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That is glorious...!!! I just love these machines... Yep, really nice quality feel to most of it, though some of the trim is showing it's age. What I like is it's still comparatively large compared to modern cars, and so far has proved quite easy to work on. As a 'project', it's probably the best I've ever bought, almost all the difficult or awkward stuff to acquire has already been fitted, so it's just the last few bits like the engine, lpg conversion and brake upgrade to sort myself to get the specs just right. Oh yes
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Last Edit: Mar 9, 2018 22:26:01 GMT by sowen
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breng
Part of things
Posts: 223
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Mar 31, 2014 11:25:52 GMT
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Have a look where the trailing arms attach to the inner sill.
This area can rot, which leads to interesting handling.
Your windscreen could be leaking or you may have some rot in the scuttle/ windscreen surround.
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Mar 31, 2014 11:51:57 GMT
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Best of luck with the car pal, looks like it'll keep you busy for a while. According to the owner's handbook with my Vitesse, carb models were fitted with a fuel flow transducer which was used to estimate MPG for the display
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I've got Rovers.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Mar 31, 2014 12:02:32 GMT
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If I can I'll be taking the trailing arm brackets off soon, looking at the photos I'm sure they just unbolt (famous last words!). There is a little of the brown stuff around them where the underseal has lifted, though I hope it's like the rest of it, just a light surface of rust that'll scrub off. I replaced the clutch yesterday, so when I've finished putting the front back together I'll run the back up on some ramps to check over the rest of the axle and fuel system.
The lower scuttle looks pretty good on the outside, though there is a little scab at the top of the screen. The lower corners have gone cloudy, so having the screen out to replace would be nice, it's also covered in grinding splatter from the botched wing replacement! I think I read that they are just bonded in, which has got me wondering how much of a diy job it would be to lift it out just to have a proper look? The headlining has dropped, and the fabric under the sunroof looks nasty, so there is a high chance that the main water leak is from there.
In comparison to another old Rover P6 I've got in the workshop right now, this ones relatively rust free. The other P6 looks good, but poking reveals holes and grot everywhere!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Mar 31, 2014 12:08:12 GMT
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Best of luck with the car pal, looks like it'll keep you busy for a while. According to the owner's handbook with my Vitesse, carb models were fitted with a fuel flow transducer which was used to estimate MPG for the display That would probably explain all the electrical wires on the carb fuel lines! I don't envisage this being a big job yet, just pick away at all the little bits now and then, and once the workshop is clear and the body is ready, bring it in and strip the whole lot back to bright metal for a respray inside and out. If I can get at least a good summers driving out the way before the more involved work begins then I'll be happy
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Mar 31, 2014 12:14:59 GMT
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Looks like a good base to turn into a very usable car. A while after launching the Vitesse, Rover noticed that lots of people were ordering it with an autobox despite the sporting pretensions of the model - it turned out that people after prestige were just buying the top-of-the-range model, which was the Vitesse. In order to cash in on this, they launched the VDP EFI as the new range-topping SD1, more expensive even than the Vitesse; Vitesse EFI engine, standard autobox, VDP interior/suspension, so rather more luxurious than the Vitesse. At the same time, they dropped the auto option on the Vitesse. I don't know if there was a manual option on the VDP EFI. I believe that the carbed VDP continued beyond the launch of the VDP EFI; yours could very well be one of these. I don't know if there's a correlation between the engine number and the chassis number on SD1s, but that could tell you if the engine is original. The presence of the fuel computer tells you that this was originally an injection engine. I believe it uses signals from the ECU. Nope, as sam1990 points out, carb models had a flow transducer to give the readings.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 863
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Mar 31, 2014 17:10:42 GMT
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I'm surprised at that but stand corrected. Not many carburated vehicles had fuel computers fitted. It's dead easy to do on an efi. All the computer needs to know is delivery rate of each injector and the pulse width of the injection then it can calculate total fuel flow. No flow meter required.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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Mar 31, 2014 17:23:43 GMT
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The Rover SD1 came in Vanden Plas and (after mid-1984) Vanden Plas EFi flavours. The carbed VdP 3500 continued until very near the end of production. The VdP EFi will have had a "Vanden Plas EFi" badge on the back, and came as standard with Vitesse alloys (but no rear spoiler) an autobox and leather faced seats (with Rover's typical vinyl-of-disappointment on the back and sides) and cruise control.
Yours now has Vitesse seats, wheels and badging so it's hard to tell. It could easily be a VdP carb model though.
The trip computer was available on carb and injection models. Lesser variants got a digital clock with a stopwatch. A lot of the carb models had electronic control of the chokes too - my 2300 had a Lucas 4CU black box above the passenger footwell controlling (or causing all sorts of problems with) the twin SU HIF44Es. Not sure what was fitted with the V8 on Strombergs though.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Mar 31, 2014 20:08:04 GMT
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Excellent detective work guys! The Rover SD1 came in Vanden Plas and (after mid-1984) Vanden Plas EFi flavours. The carbed VdP 3500 continued until very near the end of production. The VdP EFi will have had a "Vanden Plas EFi" badge on the back, and came as standard with Vitesse alloys (but no rear spoiler) an autobox and leather faced seats (with Rover's typical vinyl-of-disappointment on the back and sides) and cruise control. Yours now has Vitesse seats, wheels and badging so it's hard to tell. It could easily be a VdP carb model though. The trip computer was available on carb and injection models. Lesser variants got a digital clock with a stopwatch. A lot of the carb models had electronic control of the chokes too - my 2300 had a Lucas 4CU black box above the passenger footwell controlling (or causing all sorts of problems with) the twin SU HIF44Es. Not sure what was fitted with the V8 on Strombergs though. I think you've nailed it on the head, the previous owner fitted all the Vitesse parts so far, I just plan on finishing the job off . The Stromberg's appear to have all the automatic choke stuff still attached, it was quicker for me to take the entire manifold off and put my good SU spare on than it was to connect the fuel lines up! This is what the sills look like from underneath Shiny exhaust too! The corners of the scuttle where the wings join The front wings need removing and refitting properly I took the engine out on Sunday to change the clutch, should be driveable again on SU's in the next few days! I snapped an exhaust stud off, so fearing the worst I set about removing the manifold, which suprisingly came off easily New studs fitted The engine wiring and fuel lines need tie-ing back up and also some air filters fitting, and somewhere I should have the correct rubber water hoses that go from the water pump to the inlet manifold.
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Last Edit: Sept 23, 2017 21:48:52 GMT by sowen
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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1984 Rover SD1 Turbo V8 sowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Got a little more poking and prodding done, whipped the rocker covers off to have a look inside to check the condition on the engine internals It's quite gungy in the heads, but soft so a couple of oil changes should sort that out. Rocker covers were completely caked in dried oil, so they had a thorough scrub to clean them out Next was to run the back end up on my ramps to have a good poke at the back axle, trailing arm mounts and sill area. The drivers side clearly needs reconstruction before it gets another mot, luckily that's October so plenty of time to drive it and get the garage space ready for an autumn weldathon The passenger side is nowhere near as bad, and will be a good template to copy for the other side The engine is now holding water under pressure, I was having a little trouble with the mixture of new, old and odd water hoses getting them all to fit properly and not leak. A sticky starter motor (needed an average of about 10 flicks of the key before it would catch) turned out to be the solenoid on the starter not fitted correctly so was another easy fix. The only issue I have which is preventing me from going out for a proper hard run is what I believe to be an intermittent fuel supply, dead annoying as it will quite happily rumble around off throttle, but nail it and it'll just go flat.
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Last Edit: Sept 23, 2017 22:00:42 GMT by sowen
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