Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Been doing some reading to pass the time at work and noticed a bit of a trend... There seems to be a lot of recent threads on various UK forums that lead me to suspect the Police are cracking down on stretched tyres. I know it's always been regarded as a grey area, but I get the impression it's moving closer and closer to just being illegal with no room to argue, and I was just wondering if this is really the case or if I have just spent too much time on Google.
Seems to me that the Police are growing wise to the old 'tyre manufacturers guidelines' chestnut and it's resulting in far higher success rates with regards to points and fines for stretch related disputes.
I had 175's on 7j's on my Fiesta which was only a slight stretch, and my last two BMW's both had 195's on an 8j which was a slight stretch but nothing to write home about. Neither got me any attention, but the 10j's I'm putting on the E32 are going to need a fairy 'enthusiastic' stretch to get them under the arches, probably a 215 on a 10j, so I'm slightly worried. I don't mind attention from the Police as long as I have a good chance of fighting my corner and not getting points, however, I've seen a few threads where even the hardcore dubbers are putting narrower wheels on to avoid attention due to some apparent stretch tyre crackdown.
I read another thread where an officer had dropped into a car meet, reportedly on his way home from a training day (or whatever you want to call it) where Police had been, I don't know how to say it, they'd been getting trained to successfully prove a stretched tyre is illegal, using the tyre manufacturers guidelines to issue fines and points.
Has anybody else noticed this or heard anything official on the matter
Olie
P to the S, if you don't like stretch that's fine, if you think it's unsafe that's also fine, I respect that, but this is a thread purely about the legality of them, not your opinions on how safe you think they are or how stupid you think they look.
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Why fit 10's if they stick out? Just use 8's.
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The more that the rims stick out, especially past the arch, the more chance you'll get pulled. I just think it's a case of the Coppers coming across it more as it's becoming more popular and they're reacting to it. What we think of that reaction makes no difference. Personally, I'll do anything to avoid attracting the attention of the Law as it's utter horseshit getting constantly collared.
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1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
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Before even entering into any kind of debate about stretch, I must ask what the specs of the wheels are?
I'm running 9"' wide wheels on the back of my E34 (which is pretty much the same thing as your E32 in essence, possibly with a touch less room for wheels). I'm also running 20mm spacers which makes them ET5 offset (fairly aggressive). On top of that, I've got 255 lawn roller tyres (*very* non-stretched) and have no problems, even fully loaded and with four people on board...on rough county lanes.
If your 10" wheels are anywhere around ET25 to ET10, you shouldn't have too much problem and really can't see how you'd need to go to something like a 215 tyre?
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Copey
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,845
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Been running stretched tyres for a good few years, never had a problem with the ol' bill, though its not excessive, 195 on 8 and 205 on 9
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1990 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi with 2.0 Zetec 1985 Ford Capri 3.0 (was a 2.0 Laser originally)
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Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Oct 26, 2013 10:14:43 GMT
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The current wheels are 8j style 19s, et20 all round. The new wheels are 10j et15, but 5x112, so with the narrowest adapter I can find (20mm) they come down to -5. I've put these measurements into a calculator and the results were 45mm more poke in 5mm less inner clearance. To my eyes that gives me only about 5/10mm poke, which is on the 'legal' side of the 30mm rule of thumb But, the 8s currently have 265s fitted, and due to the huge arch lips, this is the situation: My theory was that if I go from a 265 down to a 215, I'm getting say 25mm more clearance each side of the tyre, but because the 10's come out 45mm more, that means even with the 215 on the 10j, the tread will still be 20mm further out than it currently is. Don't know if that's just man maths or if it's real. I suppose there is arch rolling and more camber to factor in, but as I say as much as I like that sort of look I'm a bit worried if it's gonna get me tugged all the time. Read more: retrorides.proboards.com/post/1855533/quote/158402#ixzz2ip6UUUwn
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Last Edit: Oct 26, 2013 10:39:10 GMT by Olie32
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Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Oct 26, 2013 10:36:45 GMT
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Before even entering into any kind of debate about stretch, I must ask what the specs of the wheels are? I'm running 9"' wide wheels on the back of my E34 (which is pretty much the same thing as your E32 in essence, possibly with a touch less room for wheels). I'm also running 20mm spacers which makes them ET5 offset (fairly aggressive). On top of that, I've got 255 lawn roller tyres (*very* non-stretched) and have no problems, even fully loaded and with four people on board...on rough county lanes. If your 10" wheels are anywhere around ET25 to ET10, you shouldn't have too much problem and really can't see how you'd need to go to something like a 215 tyre? Do you mind if I ask what profile your tyres are buddy? I want to compare specs to see how yours compare to my tens
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Oct 26, 2013 10:59:35 GMT
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One aspect that I'd read is the tyres aren't fitted in accordance to the manufacturers recommendations and therefore if you haven't informed your insurers you have "stretched tyres" fitted then it's deemed that insurance is invalid and Police can use that to procecute thus avoiding any dispute about whether the actual tyres are legal or not. So moral of story, as always, is ensure you disclose EVERYTHING to your insurers otherwise it just gives the Police something else that is definable in law to procecute under.
paul h
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Oct 26, 2013 10:59:58 GMT
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I believe the letter of the law relates to the fact that no tread can protrude beyond the arch (though I stand to be corrected on that if anyone knows better?). If that's the case I don't really see what the Plod can do about it? The worst is they issue you a vehicle rectification notice if they think it unsafe, in which case you just get it signed off by an MOT tester and it's an inconvenience rather than anything else. Cynically speaking I can't see the Old Bill bothering getting into tyre stretch because it doesn't make them any money and in the time they waste busting yo a** about tyres they could issue eight £100 fixed penalties for small numberplates
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Last Edit: Oct 26, 2013 11:00:28 GMT by luckyseven: spelnilg an grammer
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Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Oct 26, 2013 11:08:57 GMT
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I believe the letter of the law relates to the fact that no tread can protrude beyond the arch (though I stand to be corrected on that if anyone knows better?). If that's the case I don't really see what the Plod can do about it? The worst is they issue you a vehicle rectification notice if they think it unsafe, in which case you just get it signed off by an MOT tester and it's an inconvenience rather than anything else. Cynically speaking I can't see the Old Bill bothering getting into tyre stretch because it doesn't make them any money and in the time they waste busting yo a** about tyres they could issue eight £100 fixed penalties for small numberplates The problem is that all the time people have been stretching tyres they have been using the 'no more than 30mm poke, tread must be under arch' to justify stretch as a concept, and it always kept it as a grey are, but as mentioned on the post above that, from looking around the net last night there seems a lot of 2012/2013 threads with the police using this 'outside of manufacturers guidelines' to sort of overwrite the 30mm and tyre under the arch. Just get the impression the Police in general are getting wise to that now as people seem to be getting done rather than just tugged Which makes me worry about my 10s haha
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Oct 26, 2013 12:07:13 GMT
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My mate got pulled by VOSA last week in his slammed brown Civic Saloon and they told him he wasnt allowed to drive the car until he'd rectified the so called faults . He had to fork out £120 there and then to get the car taken away on a flatbed . The main thing was the wheels sticking out past the arches , the tyres not fitted in accordance with manufacturers guidance and having HID headlights fitted . The car in question is quite subtle compared to loads I've seen and the poke and stretch is by no means excessive ( nowhere near 30mm ) , it's also passed it's MOT and has all the mods declared on the insurance . He now cant use the car until it's put right and re'MOTd by VOSA themselves . Bad times if you ask me
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You've been telling me you were a genius since you were seventeen ... in all the time I've known you I still don't know what you mean !
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Oct 26, 2013 12:14:32 GMT
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I guess 155s on 7s will get some notice then
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Oct 26, 2013 23:44:27 GMT
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It is a byproduct of the Euro/JDM scenes becoming the chav scene of this period i'm afraid.
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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Oct 27, 2013 10:10:05 GMT
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When I fitted 17" 10j et15 no adapters to my e32 I cut away that arch lip and sealed them back up. The rear was slammed and I had a nasty surprise when it came off the jack and gouged the rim. I used 235/45 and no problems after that. You're making it hard for yourself with 10j + 20mm adapters.
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Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 10:10:55 GMT by rob0r
E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i ETC
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Oct 27, 2013 12:03:56 GMT
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Hmm this has me worried for another reason than stretch. If they are doing people for using tyres outside the manufacturers guidelines I could have issues with the DAF.
Manufacturer stated the use of 135 80 14 tyre size which are no longer made and any that are second hand are so old I wouldn't fit them, so my car is fitted with 155 70 14s to give the same rolling radius, the tyres therefore are 20mm wider than they should be, I really hope this isn't going to cause problems
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,880
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Oct 27, 2013 12:31:58 GMT
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Hmm this has me worried for another reason than stretch. If they are doing people for using tyres outside the manufacturers guidelines I could have issues with the DAF. Manufacturer stated the use of 135 80 14 tyre size which are no longer made and any that are second hand are so old I wouldn't fit them, so my car is fitted with 155 70 14s to give the same rolling radius, the tyres therefore are 20mm wider than they should be, I really hope this isn't going to cause problems Is this use outside of manufacturers guidelines not referring to the tyre manufacturer stating that each tyre width is suitable for a range of rim widths? e.g. the 155/70/14s will probably be recommended for rims between 4 and 5.5" wide. Use outside of the guidelines is when people fit/stretch the same 155 section tyre to a 7" wide rim. FWIW I'd say stick with wide tyre, a little stretch if you like the look (but don't go silly) and get busy with the arch mods
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Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 12:33:14 GMT by goldnrust
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Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Oct 27, 2013 12:46:10 GMT
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Hmm this has me worried for another reason than stretch. If they are doing people for using tyres outside the manufacturers guidelines I could have issues with the DAF. Manufacturer stated the use of 135 80 14 tyre size which are no longer made and any that are second hand are so old I wouldn't fit them, so my car is fitted with 155 70 14s to give the same rolling radius, the tyres therefore are 20mm wider than they should be, I really hope this isn't going to cause problems Is this use outside of manufacturers guidelines not referring to the tyre manufacturer stating that each tyre width is suitable for a range of rim widths? e.g. the 155/70/14s will probably be recommended for rims between 4 and 5.5" wide. Use outside of the guidelines is when people fit/stretch the same 155 section tyre to a 7" wide rim. FWIW I'd say stick with wide tyre, a little stretch if you like the look (but don't go silly) and get busy with the arch mods I think in this case you've nothing to worry about mate! As said there are charts floating about if needed (which is the worrying thing as this is what's being used as proof). I doubt you'd arouse suspicion in the first place with that setup to be honest, pics of the DAF? Cheers fella. Agree I am making it hard for myself using these wheels but I had them for an absolute steal. I gave £420 for them and there's nothing this side of £1000 I'd replace them with :/ What tyres are fitted on yours there mate? Do you have a shot to show how much camber you were running? Appreciate the pics Olie
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Oct 27, 2013 13:00:49 GMT
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Is this use outside of manufacturers guidelines not referring to the tyre manufacturer stating that each tyre width is suitable for a range of rim widths? e.g. the 155/70/14s will probably be recommended for rims between 4 and 5.5" wide. Use outside of the guidelines is when people fit/stretch the same 155 section tyre to a 7" wide rim. FWIW I'd say stick with wide tyre, a little stretch if you like the look (but don't go silly) and get busy with the arch mods I think in this case you've nothing to worry about mate! As said there are charts floating about if needed (which is the worrying thing as this is what's being used as proof). I doubt you'd arouse suspicion in the first place with that setup to be honest, pics of the DAF? Daf fitted with said tyres don't mind the arch gap she'd just been jacked and the suspension hadn't had a chance to settle
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Olie32
Part of things
Posts: 133
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Oct 27, 2013 13:13:07 GMT
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Sorry just re-read your post and yes current, stretch is when it's outside what the tyre manufacturer has stated that tyre is suitable for, and there is a bit of room for manoeuvre, but not enough that it even allows what I would call a minor stretch. The example I was looking at was saying an 8 would need a 235 minimum, here is one of my old E36's with a 195 on an 8. Quite mild in my opinion. Worth pointing out that I've heard of Police measuring your wheel at the side of the road, and obviously '8j' is the width of the tyre well, so this gives them a false reading. It's knowing how much of what you read around the internet is reliable I suppose. Daf looks well, I wouldn't be losing any sleep
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Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 13:13:46 GMT by Olie32
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Oct 27, 2013 18:28:37 GMT
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Well, looking at a few friends` newer BMW`s, they actually run stretched tires FROM THE FACTORY. Also giggling like a small child at my new wheels, its so nice when your wheels are wide enough to stretch 255\40`s Oh, and i have been pulled by the fuzz here in norway, where car mods are pretty strict, and they liked the 155\55`s on 7x14 wheels, of course, the guy asked if it was safe or legal, luckily i had pictures on my cell of the tires before fitting The Nankang NS2 155\55`s are well stretched even before you get them on the rim, pretty obvious that they are made with the stretched tires car scene in mind
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Last Edit: Oct 27, 2013 18:30:51 GMT by Deleted
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