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Mar 28, 2007 12:16:31 GMT
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If you want a strong retro, buy a mk2 granada, by far the strongest unitary construction car built over here which is why we all banger raced em, ford over engineered them as they were practising with CAD so were a bit cautious. I have taken two side on hits by lorries (both time in cortina estates as it happens which is why i wont buy any more!!) i was turning right at some lights and a post office artic jumped his and wiped me out, hit the car at about 40mph from the centre pillar backwards and the car was halved in width. the other one was on an industrial estate, the guy was parked at the side of the road with hazards on, and as i went passed him he decided to U turn, his bumper dug into the passenger front door, and grabbed the centre pillar, snapping it off at the base. no injuries either time apart from both times i had a passenger and they got cuts from the glass breaking. My ol granny got used and abused really badly, my cousing hit the back of it in his sierra and totalled his car, it pushed the rad onto the engine, on teh granny it just lifted the bumper up enough to chip the bottom of one back light, i also rammed a prick in a cavalier who had been harrasing my sister, i lost both my headlight lenses and flattened the front bumper, but its squashed the boot of his cav SRi right up to the base of the back window and jammed up his rear wheels so he couldn't escape.  |
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Mar 28, 2007 12:17:26 GMT
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Good point BenzBoy - I'd never claim that my 2CV is safe in a crash - they are better than you'd expect but I don't even want to think about what would happen in a side impact. I could double my chances of survival by using a baguette as a side impact beam I reckon!!
But, it does mean you really make sure not to pull out in front of anyone!
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org |
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Mar 28, 2007 12:21:45 GMT
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As others have said, depends entirely on the accident. Modern cars have proved to be infinitely safer than old ones when subjected to crash testing, but in a real life crash that doesnt meet the same criteria as the ones in the tests, all bets are off. You might find that plunging down a ravine and landing rear 3/4 panel first might be safer in a 2cv than in a new S-class, who knows, they havent done that test as far as I know. I have known rear end shunts where a Mk2 Fiesta has ended up with a smashed light but the new XJ6 it piled into was completely obliterated at the rear. I don't know why my 323 didnt fold up like a cheap suitcase when I hit the underside of a Favorit at at least 50mph, maybe if I`d hit it side-on it would have.
One thing is for sure, older cars tend have better visibilty and "peipheral vison" than new ones because they don't have absurdly thick A-posts and the dash doesnt stretch out for six miles, so you might have more chance of spotting the hazard and avoiding the crash completely.
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2007 12:23:36 GMT by vicsmith
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Mar 28, 2007 13:23:04 GMT
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If I spent all my time worrying about getting mangled in a car wreck I wouldn't drive at all. I certainly wouldn't ride a bike.
I've gone smack into the back of a parked car at about 45mph in my 100E with no seatbelts which wrote it off but apart from a bit of knee damage which gives me jip every nown and then I was unhurt despite smashing all the spiky edged clocks off the dash with my legs, denting the steering column with my knee, taking the wheel to the chest and hitting the windscreen. It quite simply doesn't hurt that much.
I'm not endorsing no seatbelts, just pointing out what actually happens.
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Mar 28, 2007 14:03:04 GMT
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Yeah no point worrying about it, imagine if you went out and bought a Nissan Note so you could be all nice and safe then were killed at home in a bizarre accident involving a set of bellows or a trumpet or something.
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Mar 28, 2007 14:33:27 GMT
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Can I also mention having been rear ended twice in the 2cv...
towbar, Towbar and TOWBAR.
If it wasnt for the tow bar my car would have been written off a week after I purcased it, instead my tow bar has defended my rear admirably and managed to pierce the radiator of some idiot that hit me at a set of lights at 30mph.
Ok their not for the most part pretty, but having a stainless back bumper which are getting scarse coupled with the fact that 2cv bumper brackets are like paper means I rather have the bar on!
Mick.
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Mar 28, 2007 15:03:25 GMT
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Moderns are miles safer than retros, that clip is a bad example as no car would stand up to that type of impact. It doesnt even have to be a serious accident to be badly injured, steering columns, interior handles and fittings and hard dasboards can cause a serious amount of damage even in a slow accident. Modern cars don't have as many "hard points" inside ready to break a knee or break your ribs. Classics may not have the crumple zones to collapse and may appear "stronger" than newer models but the body will have to bend somwhere in a bad accident. If the front doesnt crumple then the passenger area will instead. Moderns have a safety cell around the passenger compartment thats very strong, the rest of the car is designed to take all the impact and force.
The thing that makes retros safe on todays roads is 50mph seems like 100 and your mind is focused on simpy keeping the thing on the road, going round corners, stopping in time e.t.c. 100mph in a modern saloon is nothing, the driver is lulled into a false sense of security and thats when accidents happen!
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2007 15:04:12 GMT by Lankytim
1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.  |
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Mar 28, 2007 15:19:05 GMT
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And a 100mph impact in a Focus will probably be just as life threatening as a 50mph in an old Escort. And everybody is doing 100mph these days. Car safety probably hasnt moved on in the slightest if you take into account that everyone drives twice as fast.
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Mar 28, 2007 15:23:04 GMT
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I think according to the stats theres 10x the amount of cars on the roads since the early 60's but 10x less deaths or something, so I guess it must be working. Theres probably just alot more avoidable "stupid" accidents happening.
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES. |
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Mar 28, 2007 15:24:32 GMT
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And a 100mph impact in a Focus will probably be just as life threatening as a 50mph in an old Escort. And everybody is doing 100mph these days. Car safety probably hasnt moved on in the slightest if you take into account that everyone drives twice as fast. AMEN TO THAT! Basically this thread can be closed now. There's nothing more to be seen here folks. |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
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Mar 28, 2007 16:01:27 GMT
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As much as we all love our retro motors, I think we have to concede that modern cars are generally a lot safer in a crash than ours. Yes the are made of plastic and thin metal and crumple up at the slightest knock, but they are designed to do that so that the forces are not transferred to the occupants. Retros were designed to withstand crashes and be repairable, whereas a modern is designed to sacrifice itself to save the passengers. That's obviously a general statement, and I'd feel a lot safer crashing in my Benz than a Ford Ka, but let's not have the blinkers on about how safe our cars are - we need to drive defensively and mindful of the dangers around us, as I'm sure everyone here does.  Thats the post of the thread for me. I do take some bizarre comfort when driving my Oxford that it is banger fodder for a reason. Driving old stuff everyday I know I can't take liberties with it but also have a strong feeling that fate has something to do with being caught up in something caused by someone else (I realise that will probably sound quite whack to a lot of you though...) Here's Isabel aged 3 weeks on her way home from hospital - in the Oxford. After all you read as an expectant parent about safety in cars her first journey was at age 4 hours in the back of an ambulance. The "cot" she was in was fixed to the floor but she was just lying flat in it, head first, with no restraints. I was also the only one of four people on board wearing a seat belt!  |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Jenn
Part of things
Posts: 929
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Mar 28, 2007 16:23:54 GMT
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Did nobody see how safety conscious the beetle is in that first clip? Once the truck hits the 2CV, the Vee Dub runs away, a little known safety feature of VolksWagen's.
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Mar 28, 2007 16:25:37 GMT
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I do often wonder if the fact that every car now comes with 50 airbags, ESP, EBD, EBA and so on is leading to people driving badly in the belief their car will get them out of any situation?
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,459
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Mar 28, 2007 16:56:24 GMT
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Also, another point is that the cars in that clip are all parked nose to tail. If they had pulled up further away from each other, the damage to each would have been less. When I pull up at traffic lights I generally leave a reasonable gap unless I reckon someone will have a go at muscling into it to beat a queue (happens rather often...) In the fifteen months since I passed my test, I've only ever had my retro up to (almost!) 70MPH once, and it scared the curse word out of me. The tracking and steering box are a bit shonky though - once they are sorted it will probably be a bit more convincing. At least in my car 40MPH feels fast. In modern cars I can be going 70 and still feel like it is going slowly. I've been in a 1970s beetle doing about 80 once, because it was so stupidly low it was hitting the floor occasionally too (on a motorway!) and it really felt terrifying. But somehow I felt fairly safe, despite having only been helping rebuild the engine a few weeks before and knowing my feet were about an inch from the motorway. And my car has A pillars small enough to see past . |
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Mar 28, 2007 17:41:32 GMT
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your more likly to have a low speed accident than a high speed one, most of my retro's are built to go fast, stop and handle, if i cant cruise at 100mph i just get bored with the car as it takes forever to get anywhere.
most people who enjoy their cars are more watchfull and observant anyway as they don't want the car damaged, in my experience you either get hit by someone else, or if you build cars like i do, you end up backwards in a ditch (not that i have suffered from that particular problem, i had a near fatal bike accident 20 years ago and i have a VERY healthy respect for life and don't often go that fast on bendy roads)
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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How safe are retro cars?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 28, 2007 18:24:26 GMT
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One thing that scared me quite a bit was seeing an ad for some new SUV thing... can't remember what it was exactly... but one of its features was that it BRAKED when you got too close to the car in front. WTF?! Just what the hell responsibility does the driver of a new car have?! I thought that was unbelievable. I think all these modern safety things are a good thing, but i can't help thinking it makes the driver feel invincible... until they crash.  |
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Mar 28, 2007 18:35:24 GMT
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A perfect example just 5 minutes ago...Stuck behind a dodderer in a Fiesta doing 25mph if that, Golf TDI comes haring up behind me at a disconcerting speed, only just slowed down, the VW badge was virtually taking up my rear view mirror etc. 20 years ago, no Golf TDis, what would that woman have been driving? A Golf Diesel, with a 5mph top speed, a Golf petrol? Mk3 Escort? Either way I bet it wouldnt have been anything capable of accelerating up steep hills with anything the frightening speed that these things can. Cars, and vans, are too fast for the plebs that drive them, they don't appreciate the performance they just do 100mph everywhere because the car/van will do it really easiliy.
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Mar 28, 2007 18:53:19 GMT
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Well said vicsmith, there is a special word for these people: 'Fucktard'
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MaxN
Part of things
Posts: 482
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Mar 28, 2007 19:44:25 GMT
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I threw my '87 325iS into the scenery at fairly obscene speeds and walked away with nothing more than a 'WTF expression' on my face.
Everything held up wonderfully, the crumple zones crumpled, the steering-rack disappeared into the car, the roof posts kept the roof from my head and the screen even had the courtesy to fly outwards rather than inwards.
The seat belt held me into the Recaro which thoughtfully did not collapse and the head restraint even restrained my head.
The major downside was that I wrecked a perfectly good classic the day after I finished replacing the clutch and I lost a few possessions (phone etc) in the process, but it all worked and all held together.
I am not so sure that I would want the same crash in a more modern car due to concerns about getting battered by airbags. On the flip side, had I been driving something with DSC I am not so sure I would have left the road in quite such spectacular fashion. Either that or the crash would have been a few orders of magnitude bigger and no amount of safety features short of a full cage, helmet and harnesses would have saved my life.
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Mar 28, 2007 20:31:56 GMT
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On the flip side, had I been driving something with DSC I am not so sure I would have left the road in quite such spectacular fashion. Is that in a BMW Mini? If so, the one I had on my Bini was curse word  Mine was the DCS+C (or something like that), the uprated version. It would brake for you round corners and send it all over the shop if you tryed to correct it. I turned it off and got a bollocking off BMW because it void the insurance if its off and you crash. |
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