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Jan 14, 2014 12:06:27 GMT
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Following with interest as am planning a 5 speed conversion on my beetle, but using the Audi/passat box. Thanks for sharing the pitfalls of the rear suspension conversion. Ttfn Glenn Not heard of that conversion, got a link? With regards to the rear end if you can do a mock up on a scrap chassis. Definitely get hold of a jig as well - we sold ours shortly after for what it cost new. We also had to buy two different sets of brackets to weld onto the chassis as the first were a poor fit so be weary of that. Also worth knowing that the standard 22mm torsion tubes can be upgraded to 944 items which start at 23.5mm, worthwhile if you're fitting a heavier engine and box |
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Last Edit: Jan 25, 2014 5:59:57 GMT by stevenery
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,019
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Jan 14, 2014 12:31:06 GMT
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Jan 14, 2014 13:10:22 GMT
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Looks like quite a large box compared to stock! You have to consider how far back it might put the engine as you then run into issues with the valance and closing the deck lid. Also weight to consider, not an issue in a van but definitely going to make a difference in a bug
I've seen other threads were people have chopped the boot floor out and moved the whole assembly further into the car - also seen a more extreme thread where a Dutch guy machined the gearbox casing and other assembles down so the whole lot was much shorter and would fit in a stock chassis!
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Jan 14, 2014 21:48:18 GMT
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OK so whilst all this other work was going on thought turned to the brakes. The most common rear disc conversion on these is using 944 discs and callipers with a slight modification for the handbrake cables. Its really simple with everything just sliding straight on. However this can entail larger wheels and different stud pattern. The Porsche 914 has rear discs and just happens to be the same stud pattern as a Beetle. To bolt these on we needed to make up some kind of hub. Through here we made contact with a local member called jimbo1989 who had access to a lathe and turned out to be a massive help with this element of the project So first up an old set of drums were dug out the garden (literally!) and turned down enough so that they would sit inside the discs  Turned Drum/Disc Hub by Steven Buckland, on Flickr In addition 2mm was taken off the face and a ring left in the middle to locate the disc. The four wheel bolts hold the disc to the hub with a couple screws also attached for when the wheels removed The callipers chosen were from a Passat made around the year 2000. They are the same callipers as used on a MK4 Golf but with a slightly different carrier. I think in general any calliper that uses a similar mechanism to operate the handbrake and obviously fits inside the wheel can be used.  MK 4 Golf/Passat Callipers by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  MK 4 Golf/Passat Callipers by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  MK 4 Golf/Passat Callipers by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  MK 4 Golf/Passat Callipers by Steven Buckland, on Flickr Now we needed some carriers to bolt the callipers up. There is a guy in Australia who makes one out of a solid piece of aluminium - too expensive for us but gave an idea of the design A rough version was made up and a load of measurements given to jimbo1989 - he can make more if you get in touch. This had to be small enough to fit inside the disc and thin enough to not cause problems being spaced to far from the wheel bearings I don't have a photo of the rough one we gave him but to get a pair of these back was pretty amazing!  Rear Calliper Bracket by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Rear Calliper Bracket by Steven Buckland, on Flickr So now we could bolt the discs and callipers up it was just a case of getting the right cables and hoses. The handbrake cables are from a MK2 Golf GTI and for these to fit we had to drill out the calliper bracket slightly and then chop the cables down considerably. Cutting the ends off the cables and then a bit of trial and error with the length we got it all routed up OK. A small nut and bolt keeps it secure with some plastic melted over the end to keep it from fraying. The brake hoses were much easier as they are just the standard Passat items connected to hard lines. Note the Koni dampers which we installed all round - again a worthwhile upgrade with much better rebound compared to stock  Rear Disc Setup by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Hose Routing by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Rear Disc Setup by Steven Buckland, on Flickr Now with a bleed of the brakes it should have all worked however whilst the car had been stood the standard master cylinder packed up. Looking around we saw you could use the Porsche 944 item and seeing how much cheaper it was compared to a new standard one we decided to give it a go. There was a slight benefit to this also as the Porsche item has a split bias so can be set for 60:40. Logically we rigged it up for greater power up front. Aside from some new hard lines and cutting/filing down the brake pedal pushrod it went on real easy. It does require more pedal pressure than stock although this is probably in part due to the discs and not just the mater cylinder.  944 Master Cylinder by Steven Buckland, on Flickr Overall though its a definite improvement over stock and should hopefully help out next time we get to Prescott |
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2020 22:21:54 GMT by stevenery
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Jan 19, 2014 13:19:05 GMT
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To bring this to a close… With all the modifications finished at the rear it was time to get an MOT - our initial goal was to be at Prescott for the Gathering but for numerous reasons we didn't make it. Still attended but in a Type 25 Caravelle which we didn't even consider taking up the hill! So yeah MOT done some time in September which got the car mobile again. Lots of small jobs could now be attended to. First up a different speedo. This was originally fitted in a Porsche 924 and then someone had fitted it into another surround so it could go into a 914. To fit you need to cut a Beetle surround up but otherwise its not tricky at all. The drive cable goes on fine and speed is accurate according to satnav. You will however have to fit another fuel gauge and then we also have a couple lights fitted in spare dash holes for the indicators.  Gauges by Steven Buckland, on Flickr Up front the car still uses the balljoint beam opposed to mcpherson struts. We weren't going to convert the front suspension - its too bigger job and besides theres nothing wrong with this design. To improve the handling a set of Koni dampers were fitted along with a much thicker roll bar which should make a good difference - reading on another forum it seems to be the setup favoured with old school cal look guys!  Thicker Front ARB by Steven Buckland, on Flickr In addition the front needed lowering more than the beam adjusters were capable of. We had bought some dropped spindles which take it down 2.5" a while back but put off fitting till now as knew it wouldn't be easy - in theory it was but when fitting we found the beam adjusters even at the highest setting had the car too low and hitting the bump stops constantly. So beam out and these were cut to offer more adjustment but then the tyres were constantly scrubbing the wings… the car was really trying our patience!  Dropped Spindles by Steven Buckland, on Flickr People typically narrow the beam when lowering the car in part because the dropped spindles increase the track but also to look cool. Not wanting to do this we simply bought a set of camber adjusters which along with a slight raise of the car brought the wheels in enough so now they rarely scrub.  The final piece to be fitted was the Kamei front spoiler which you often see on a lot of the German look performance builds. Its said to improve downforce and certainly feels like it makes a difference. So with this we are up the present day and how the car is now. Plan to keep the car on the road at all times so its used as often as possible. Have many, many type 4 engines and an assortment of parts to one day cobble something together with more horsepower - think we need at least 150+  Finished Build by Steven Buckland, on Flickr |
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2020 22:28:22 GMT by stevenery
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Jan 19, 2014 13:44:40 GMT
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Nice and subtle, I like this a lot!
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Jan 19, 2014 20:12:17 GMT
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Do like this, nice to see some proper engineering going into a bug, have to ask, since this is built for go, when is the rack and pinion steering going in. Also any upgrades planned for the front brakes ?
Ttfn Glenn
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Nicely done! That is a really awesome Beetle, and not done in the usual chequebook way with a $10,000 type 1 engine. As much as built engines are nice, this makes a refreshing change!
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Nicely done! That is a really awesome Beetle, and not done in the usual chequebook way with a $10,000 type 1 engine. As much as built engines are nice, this makes a refreshing change! Don't know how to multi quote on here but cheers all! My Dad done his apprenticeship on these back in the 70's so were always going to do the majority of work ourselves. As for a pricey type 1 engine - sod that! These type 4 lumps make more power standard and can be built relatively cheaply. Tallied up the total cost for the whole car a while back and it was around £3000 - obviously a tonne of labour, research, and the odd new tool involved but its good fun and that noise from the twin Webers makes it worthwhile! The steering is quite heavy and did look into rack and pinion, this thread was the best I found for info: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324639&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 It would be a nice addition but having had the car off the road for all of last Summer the main aim for this coming year is just to get more use out of it and keep the rust at bay. Front discs are already cross drilled and more than happy with them for the time being. |
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Last Edit: Jan 20, 2014 10:26:42 GMT by stevenery
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village
Part of things
Always carries a toolbox. Because Volkswagen.......
Posts: 567
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Jan 20, 2014 14:11:25 GMT
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I've seen this bug in the flesh (at a T4 Forum Oxon meet in Cumnor) and it real is very neatly done. a good update to make daily use easier and keep up with the moderns.
just needs a turbo now......
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"The White Van is strong with this one...."
Chris "Chesney" Allen 1976-2005 RIP
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Hi mate
Your car looks great and I love the Ronals.
Are they the 15" Ronals? Would you by any chance be interested in selling them?
Best Regards
Greg
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Hi mate Your car looks great and I love the Ronals. Are they the 15" Ronals? Would you by any chance be interested in selling them? Best Regards Greg Cheers! They are 15" Ronals which I think they were a dealer option in the 70's, we bought them from a guy who took them off a 1303 cabriolet many years ago. No plans to sell I'm afraid but they do come up on eBay/VZI occasionally. In other news may be going to a track day over Abingdon airfield at the start of April. Will see how it plans out but be a good opportunity to have some fun and see how it handles! |
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Thanks for the reply mate.
Let me know if you ever decide to sell them.
Best Regards
Greg
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Mar 10, 2014 19:47:55 GMT
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Hi again
What size tyres are your running on the front and back?
Regards
Greg
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Hi again What size tyres are your running on the front and back? Regards Greg Hey, No worries. Think the fronts are 155/70/15 and rears quite wide at 205/55/15 - do have a good pair of 205/65/15's if your interested? Oh and beam is standard width with adjusters, had to swap camber adjusters to stop the tyres scrubbing edge of wings. Would struggle to get wider on the front without raising it or chopping a couple inches out the beam. |
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Last Edit: Mar 15, 2014 3:51:14 GMT by stevenery
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Hey nothing mechanical to report on this but thought I would give the thread an update with some recent photos. Went to a couple meets over the summer and done the 60 mile round trip to work in Banbury a few times. Will happily sit at 90mph and pulls pretty well! Plans for the winter are to have the engine out just to see what its like internally. Suffers from a lack of oil pressure once hot so need to get to the bottom of that. Will also look into upgrading the fuel lines as theres been occasions where the engine just drops off if really going for it...  Beetle by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Beetle by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Beetle by Steven Buckland, on Flickr  Beetle by Steven Buckland, on Flickr |
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2020 22:34:09 GMT by stevenery
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Looking good! I love the period 70s mods on the car, but weren't you better off with a 914 in the first place?  |
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 Click picture for more |
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Looking good! I love the period 70s mods on the car, but weren't you better off with a 914 in the first place? Oh yeah hopefully will end up in a 914 some day! Should have bought one a few years ago when they could be had for a few grand, more than triple that for a good one now... hopefully this time next year will be in a position to get the ball rolling and import one from either Europe or the States! Cheers, Steven |
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This car is still so cool! I wish my Super Beetle was that nice.
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