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Not sure what you are getting at Vip. I don't dispute the principle that you are putting forward that in as long as you are taking the vehicle for a test it does not have to be taxed. What they are saying is..... if you are reported for using a Sorned car on the road they will prosecute. This puts the whole issue in the hands of the officer that stops you. If he stops you 2 miles from your house and 2 miles away from the MOT station he is unlikely to report you. If he stops you at 8.00 in the evening 150 miles from home he might take a different view especially if the car is not roadworthy. It's purely down to his 'discretion' but if he does report you, you will be prosecuted.
The point I was making is that with SORN it's not an automatic exemption and in effect a police officer has to endorse the reason as to why the vehicle was on the road by NOT reporting it. It is misleading to just say you can travel any distance to the MOT test station at any time of day. If the police officer thinks your taking the p*ss he can report you. What they are saying is that if he does then you then have the opportunity to put your case forward in court.
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Not sure what you are getting at Vip. I don't dispute the principle that you are putting forward that in as long as you are taking the vehicle for a test it does not have to be taxed. What they are saying is..... if you are reported for using a Sorned car on the road they will prosecute. This puts the whole issue in the hands of the officer that stops you. If he stops you 2 miles from your house and 2 miles away from the MOT station he is unlikely to report you. If he stops you at 8.00 in the evening 150 miles from home he might take a different view especially if the car is not roadworthy. It's purely down to his 'discretion' but if he does report you, you will be prosecuted. The point I was making is that with SORN it's not an automatic exemption and in effect a police officer has to endorse the reason as to why the vehicle was on the road by NOT reporting it. It is misleading to just say you can travel any distance to the MOT test station at any time of day. If the police officer thinks your taking the p*ss he can report you. What they are saying is that if he does then you then have the opportunity to put your case forward in court. No, you said that the DVLA will not let you drive to a booked MOT if the car is SORN, which isn't true.
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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2013 14:55:11 GMT by VIP
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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The Policeman doesn't need discretion, he needs to refer to the Law. If the Law says you can drive to a pre-booked MOT without tax or MOT, then that's it, case closed. He most certainly can inspect the vehicle, and if found to be unroadworthy, he can report you for that offence, but he cannot report you for the offence of driving without MOT or tax, since the Law allows exemption for this.
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You just don't get it. Here is an extreme example of the discretionary powers of the police. I live in Edinburgh I buy a car in Dover. I collect the car and proceed to return home driving the SORNED vehicle. I get stopped the next day in North Wales and I explain that I'm on my way but I decided to visit my auntie and stay the night cos it's too far to travel in a day but tell him that it's booked in for MOT tomorrow morning. He might buy it but he might query as to why I haven't taken a more direct route or as to why I have chosen to risk my life and that of other peoples by driving a car for such a long distance that has been on SORN for over 5 years. He then checks out my story and makes a decision as to whether he reports me or not.
He might be a bit of a car nut and let me go but he might be a health and safety nut and think that my little diversion to my auntie's was taking the p*ss. Even if he does report me I might not get penalised as I have the opportunity to explain my actions to a judge and he then has the discretion to penalise me (or not) if he thinks it's appropriate. I am still breaking the law of SORN what ever happens, it's all down to whether the law enforcement officers believe I was acting with good intent or whether I'm taking the p*ss. Worst case scenario of course is if you get involved in an accident a long way from the testing station with a car that has been Sorned for several years. Making a case for believing the car was roadworthy for a long journey could be tougher than you think.
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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2013 16:12:59 GMT by arrocuda
'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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No, you said that the DVLA will not let you drive to a booked MOT if the car is SORN, which isn't true. Show me where I said DVLA will not let you drive anywhere. All I said is that as far as the SORN law is concerned the only way you can take it to an MOT station legally is with 2 wheels off the ground. It does not recognise any exceptions. They accept that the law allows for taking a car for test and the law allows the police to enforce the law using their discretionary powers upon evidence gathered, but if you get reported to them (DVLA) you will be prosecuted is what I said.
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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2013 16:07:31 GMT by arrocuda
'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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Yawn !!
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Legal Eagle here... The definitive answer: You CAN drive a SORN-ed car to a pre-booked MoT and the DVLA cannot, and will not prosecute you for use of a SORN-ed vehicle as it is covered under the MoT laws. End. If you want me to quote chapter and verse, I can, but I CBA, as that is my day-job, this is my life/hobby/fun. I'll go back to lurking again now
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,935
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Driving with no MOT ? stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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You just don't get it. Here is an extreme example of the discretionary powers of the police. I live in Edinburgh I buy a car in Dover. I collect the car and proceed to return home driving the SORNED vehicle. I get stopped the next day in North Wales and I explain that I'm on my way but I decided to visit my auntie and stay the night cos it's too far to travel in a day but tell him that it's booked in for MOT tomorrow morning. If you did that you'd get prosecuted no matter what story you told the copper. You've got to drive directly to the MOT test (iirc anyway, can't remember if there was case law to say you could stop at a petrol station/services)
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,935
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Driving with no MOT ? stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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You just don't get it. Here is an extreme example of the discretionary powers of the police. I live in Edinburgh I buy a car in Dover. I collect the car and proceed to return home driving the SORNED vehicle. I get stopped the next day in North Wales and I explain that I'm on my way but I decided to visit my auntie and stay the night cos it's too far to travel in a day but tell him that it's booked in for MOT tomorrow morning. If you did that you'd get prosecuted no matter what story you told the copper. You've got to drive directly to the MOT test (iirc anyway, can't remember if there was case law to say you could stop at a petrol station/services)
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,215
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I have no idea what's right and wrong here, but I do know that even if you haven't broken any laws or rules (ETC.) proving you haven't in a court can be very expensive.
Probably be cheaper just to get it moved!
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From what I can tell here he has it taxed and as long as it looks like its passable and is generally roadworthy and he has it insured and booked in for a test then he will be ok.
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sweaty palms slip off joystick
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If you buy a vehicle the SORN is no longer valid from the date of purchase so you could drive it anyway, as long as you have an MOT pre booked.
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Had a quick look and it is clearly stated by NI and Scotland that you can drive to MOT with a SORN'd car but on the .gov.uk this is only stated for motor traders?? NI, Scotland.gov.ukWho cares anyway, I'd take a headlight and book it in at the cheapest MOT station. A fail sheet gives you a good list of jobs to get started on, good luck with the project!
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What about taking for MOT near seller ? You might be lucky and get a pass but even with a fail you are simply driving back from a "pre arranged" MOT. As a bonus it'd show up any defect that could be dangerous and possibly fail on the drive home.
Paul H
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The exception of allowing you to drive your car to a pre booked mot is only to the nearest address as to where the car is registered to. How do i know this? I found out the hard/expensive way.
Also whether or not your cars booked in for a mot, Have you considered what your insurance would say should you have a bump? Driving with no tax or mot sir? Your insurance is void sorry have a good day.
They might not say this of course but insurance companies are there for one reason only and thats to make money. If they can't get out of a claim then you better your bottom dollar they will.
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Sorn is all a load of rubbish and most of the folks at Swansea (and LVLAs for that matter) don't understand the rules they are supposed to be enforcing. I recently called at an lvla to get an exempt car (a 64 Volvo) which had been off the road since since 1991 registered as exempt and get a tax disc. The nutjobs there would not accept my motor trade insurance certificate because the reg number of the car was not on it! ?!!!!!!! Despite my protests they would not do it. I am now fighting another battle over a Toledo I bought a few months ago, Although taxed (free) and MOTd when I bought it, the car was not and is not roadworthy and has not been used. The Mot ran out in July but the tax disc is still valid till January. The DVLA are trying to fine me £80 for not insuring the car, I wrote back saying I have Trade insurance which means any car I own is covered automatically and gave them company name, policy number etc. I am aware that the car will not appear on the MID database un;less I tell the insurance company to put it on but since I'm not using it, it counts as a car in stock and doesn't need to be notified. They say they are "investigating" Steve
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really depends on your insurance, check the policy wording! Some only ask for the vehicle to be in roadworthy condition (not necessarily MOT'd) others insist on tax and MOT'd.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,935
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Driving with no MOT ? stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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The exception of allowing you to drive your car to a pre booked mot is only to the nearest address as to where the car is registered to. Nothing in the law mentions distance. If it's not written into law they can't prosecute you for it.
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I declared myself SORN to DVLA. Am I OK to cycle to work?
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Glad that's all cleared up then !!
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