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May 16, 2013 12:25:51 GMT
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Hi folks,
Having a completely wibblepoo day today. Got myself insured for the day on our '97 300TDI defender. Was going to roll to college in it this morning, come back, hook up a trailer and then drive down to salisbury to pick up a hammond organ. Things didnt go to plan.
Used it yesterday up and down the track with no problems at all, went to start it up this morning, lights came on as normal, turned the key, silence. Not even a solenoid click.
Tried three batteries thinking it was a flat battery, still no luck, so i called out the AA, he wasnt here for very long and didnt say an awful lot, told me it was either a starter motor or the ignition switch. He was sure it was the starter motor and said "this needs to go straight to a garage".
So i said no its fine, he went on his way, i went straight to the local motor factors, brought a brand new motor, fitted it just now, same effing problem.
If you turn the key, wait about 5 seconds, a 'donk sound' is heard, which is a solenoid in the engine bay, when you turn the key to silence the same one clicks.
Is it possible that its an immobiliser problem, perhaps related to that solenoid?
Its got a factory immobiliser, but we never arm it, so I'm uncertain.
Ive already wasted 140 quid on a new starter, lost my days insurance and missed a whole day of college trying to mend the curse word, anyone got any ideas?
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May 16, 2013 12:33:56 GMT
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Lesson learned really, never chuck parts at a car without doing some tests
Anyway:-
Is the engine free to turn? Grab a suitable socket and bar and turn the crank over
Engine earths okay? Give the engine another earth by using a jump lead
100% sure the battery you have is a good one? Can you get a boost pack or another vehicle to give you more power?
If you turn the headlights on and try and start it, what happens to the lights? Stay bright? Go dull?
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May 16, 2013 13:38:00 GMT
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Well you'd assume his tests were satisfactory!
Engine should be fine, ran yesterday, tried to tow start it today so it shoudl at least be free.
Earths, dunno, battery is fine and has been tested with a meter.
I'll try the headlights thing.
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,121
Club RR Member Number: 134
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May 16, 2013 13:55:46 GMT
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You got a multimeter? Test your feeder live to the starter (thick wire) for a decent 12v supply. Make sure this is clean and makes good contact. Any corrosion here or on the battery will cause grief.
If there is still debate, you CAN (not particularly clever) throw a jump lead from the positive on the battery to the main positive on the starter. This should kick it into life should there be a break in your live feed. Do this with the engine earthed to the battery with the other jump lead.
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May 16, 2013 15:09:30 GMT
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We tried the live from the battery thing, didnt even stir it. Ive given up now, i only needed it for today and it chose today of all days after 7 years of ownership to break beyond simple repair.
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,121
Club RR Member Number: 134
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May 16, 2013 15:35:28 GMT
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Sticky solenoid? Might be worth testing the starter off the car using that technique.
Also, definite need for a multimeter on those batteries...
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May 16, 2013 17:27:04 GMT
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don't get how the AA guy said its either startor or ign switch, its easy to rule diagnose it. Did you or AA guy try bridging the 2 terminals on the starter? If nothing happened then its the starter that gone or unlikely but possible the big +ve cable from battery to starter. If it was ignition switch you wouldnt get 12v when cranked on the wir that goes to spade connector on starter.
the fact a new starter does nothing says to me the spade is not getting 12v when trying to crank, so bridge and check. If it not turning when u are giving the 2 terminals 12v then its starter(unlikly old nd a new one both broken) or something is siezed.
discos are bad for immob issues, thers a box behind the dash the its on the heater that often die with age giving non starting. from memory the factory immob stops power to the starter solenoid and the fuel top solenoid too.
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Last Edit: May 16, 2013 17:32:24 GMT by damageandy
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May 16, 2013 17:31:02 GMT
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I would test the starter you have off the car
You could have two duff starters. Just because its new, doesn't mean it works.
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May 16, 2013 18:32:16 GMT
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don't worry, its being towed to the garage tomorrow, i'll let you know what the problem turns out to be in case it happens to anyone else.
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May 16, 2013 21:11:15 GMT
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Is it Auto, could it be that the gearbox isolator switch has gone duff and its not registering that its in park or Neutral?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,245
Club RR Member Number: 170
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May 16, 2013 21:18:56 GMT
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Has the gearbox been off lately? I would be tempted to check the wiring and the connections on the starter itself. On the Stag and the Mondeo V6 both were non starters due this (both had slightly broken solenoid terminals making starting them a hit or miss affair). FWIW both of them had been to different garages (in the case of the Stag, a new gearbox via a 'box rebuilder (although that gearbox had been off a few times before on that car), the Mondeo a local garage for a clutch change). Both issues manifested themselves a while afterwards though (the Stag did it 2 months after I got it back from the garage, the Mondeo took a little longer to show its issues (20,000 miles later (well, around 7 months)). I guess both starters were dropped or kicked at the solenoid terminal (the most vulnerable to damage). Whilst some may say it was coincidence there was evidence of other damage with the Mondeo near the starter as a result of the clutch change (the car until 6 months after the clutch change never even came close to overheating. Like you I came close to buying a new fan + controller (not available seperately) at a cost of £330 (they are unique to the last generation of V6s (fully variable fan controller ). In the end the issue was a sethered wire.
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Last Edit: May 16, 2013 21:20:31 GMT by ChasR
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ToolsnTrack
Posted a lot
Homebrew Raconteur
Posts: 4,121
Club RR Member Number: 134
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May 20, 2013 15:44:03 GMT
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What was the outcome?
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May 20, 2013 15:50:17 GMT
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My dad fixed it today.
It turned out to be the fuse for the alarm system, knew it had to be the alarm.
I checked most of the 4000 fuses under the dash, but not all of them, my fault really.
Even so, the AA bloke was entirely curse word and you'd think he should have checked the fuses as well...
I would, as an AA man anyway. But because I was rushing to get it working cos I was only insured for that day I wasnt as stategic as I should have been.
Oh well, live and learn.
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