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Feb 19, 2007 21:46:43 GMT
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Cause the two don't F*****G mix. After going through rear brake hell with my Avenger last spring I wasn't looking forward to taking the Minx for its MOT. It sailed through last year but I've put 10,000 miles on since so I figured that there would be problems. Sure enough it failed on the rear brakes, both foot brake and parking brake. Well, that and a missing locking nut from the offside outer track rod end - which, since I haven't removed it in the past year must have been missing at the last MOT.
Most annoying of all it failed on the brakes because the new computerized MOT system doesn't make provision for old cars, and the tester had to phone someone up to get the weight of the car. They told him that it is 1180kg which works out to about 2600lbs, which is about 500lbs more than what my manual says the car weighs, and even if you take into account two passengers and a part tank of petrol, its probably still 150 to 200lbs too heavy. This means the braking force needed to pass is considerably more than it would be if the car had the correct weight attributed to it.
Looking on the bright side, all the rear brakes needed was a little adjusting which I accomplished this evening. And my MOT tester, being a nice chap, told me he'll through the car on the brake tester to make sure its ok before re MOTing it.
That said, I'm sick of fiddling with drum brakes, and this just gives me more reason to figure out how to put some rear disks on the car before the next MOT.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0
1995 BMW 320i Saloon
1989 BMW 325i Touring
1991 Mercedes 300TE-24
1991 Mercedes 190e
1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
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Feb 19, 2007 22:22:37 GMT
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Adjusting the brakes is one of those things I always do pre-MOT. They really ought to get done every few thousand miles (according to the maintenence schedules) but I rarely get round to it so a pre MOT service always gives a good excuse to do it. They do work much better when adjusted properly though  A bit dodgy on the weight issue though. Who did he phone? A mate who picked a number from the sky?  They should be willing to listen to the owner who is likely to be most knowledgable on the matter (and they'd know if you were taking the pee). My guy took a look at the chart for similar sized (but older) vehicles. |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Feb 19, 2007 22:23:01 GMT
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...and this just gives me more reason to figure out how to put some rear disks on the car before the next MOT. The calipers of which will seize up between MOTs instead, requiring replacement rather than a minor fettle  |
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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mcc
Kinda New
Posts: 1
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Feb 19, 2007 22:30:04 GMT
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When I took my 72 Datsun for an MOT, the tester didn't know the weight, so he used some kind of accelerometer device that placed in the footwell. Basically, he drove the car at 20mph and jumped on the anchors and because the needle on the device reached a certain level, he deemed the brakes to be OK. Progress eh?
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Feb 19, 2007 23:02:05 GMT
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Feb 19, 2007 23:05:13 GMT
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...and this just gives me more reason to figure out how to put some rear disks on the car before the next MOT. The calipers of which will seize up between MOTs instead, requiring replacement rather than a minor fettle Well, I've never had calipers seize on me yet. And they are less fiddly then drum brakes, particularly these drum brakes. The self adjusting mechanism fits onto the wheel cylinder somehow. I'm sure it's easy enough but one more thing to remember when you go to put it back together. |
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Last Edit: Feb 19, 2007 23:06:39 GMT by mrabody
1995 Range Rover 4.0
1995 BMW 320i Saloon
1989 BMW 325i Touring
1991 Mercedes 300TE-24
1991 Mercedes 190e
1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Feb 19, 2007 23:09:12 GMT
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Adjusting the brakes is one of those things I always do pre-MOT. They really ought to get done every few thousand miles (according to the maintenence schedules) but I rarely get round to it so a pre MOT service always gives a good excuse to do it. They do work much better when adjusted properly though A bit dodgy on the weight issue though. Who did he phone? A mate who picked a number from the sky? They should be willing to listen to the owner who is likely to be most knowledgable on the matter (and they'd know if you were taking the pee). My guy took a look at the chart for similar sized (but older) vehicles. It was someone he uses for that purpose. Basically they had series V andn VI Minx, and Superminx listed. They told him to use the series V and VI even though mine is an Arrow series which I believe weighs less. I did have my shop manual there, but I it's in lbs and the computer takes kg. I'll make sure it's correct for next year. Doesn't matter though. The brakes are all sorted and ready to go. Just need to pull the track rod end off and put the nut on. |
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Last Edit: Feb 19, 2007 23:10:16 GMT by mrabody
1995 Range Rover 4.0
1995 BMW 320i Saloon
1989 BMW 325i Touring
1991 Mercedes 300TE-24
1991 Mercedes 190e
1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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don't they use decellerometers for 4x4 cars that wont go on the rollers for the brake test?
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.  |
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I'm still toying with the idea of putting disc brake at the rear on the mini, I'm in the same boat with failing mot's every year cos they're not happy with the brakes.
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LOL, anyone kow the weight of a '66 Buick LeSabre off the top of your head? MOTs are fun now with some of these tests.
I have to say I prefer drum brakes to discs from a maintenance point of view. Generally a lot less bother and easier/cheaper to sort when they sieze up. I suppose its what you're used to though.
Yank cars with foot operated parking brakes are good in this respect. You can press down on that pedal with your leg much harder than you can pull up a lever. I about had the damn thing bust off trying to lock the parking brake on the rollers at the last MOT on one of mine. Why does a parking brake need to lock the wheels on the rollers? So long as it will hold the car surely thats good enough. You only need the wheels to lock on the move if you want to handbrake turn the thing surely...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,542
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Feb 20, 2007 10:29:01 GMT
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Why does a parking brake need to lock the wheels on the rollers? So long as it will hold the car surely thats good enough. You only need the wheels to lock on the move if you want to handbrake turn the thing surely... From what I've experienced with my tester there's no need for them to lock, they just need to retard to a certain level. He's always suprised on the occasions the Herald manages it as he knows they're weak. I bet there's a lot of Jag rear-ends that only scrape through too! |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Feb 20, 2007 10:56:48 GMT
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I'm still toying with the idea of putting disc brake at the rear on the mini, I'm in the same boat with failing mot's every year cos they're not happy with the brakes. Mini's really arent heavy enough to warant rear discs. The rear brakes don't really need to do huge amounts on a mini. I hade 7x13's with yokohamas on my mini and the stock rear drums would lock the backs easy. I even locked all 4 wheels at 60mph (90 when i started braking) |
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Feb 20, 2007 11:01:59 GMT
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I once failed my G40 on uneven rear brakes, one was brilliant and the other was just above the target but there was too much difference. So I took it home, new shoes, greased everything that should be greased, wire brushed all the rust off - exactly as Haynes told me to. Took it back and it passed.... as I'd mullered the good brake into being as bad as the bad one! And since they were putting out near identical force, and were both above the limit (just), he had no option |
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Never trust a man
Who names himself Trevor.
Or one day you might find
He's not a real drug dealer.
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Feb 20, 2007 11:13:55 GMT
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Nothing wrong with drum handbrakes provided it's all in operational spec! Good tight cables, adjusters wound out, good shoes, good drums. Hell, it worked off the production line, so it should work now! With the Dollies it's easy - if any adjustment is required, it usually is just a case of dropping the drums and winding out the self adjusters a few mm (as they don't do it themselves).  With regards to total braking, it's usually 70-90% of the braking done by the fronts, the remaining 30-10% done by the rear (usually the smaller figure). Of course, there are always exceptions This is why you can still get modern cars with rear drums - because it's much easier to implement an effective handbrake system, whereas handbrakes that operate on discs directly tend to be weaker. |
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2007 11:14:50 GMT by Lewis
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Feb 20, 2007 12:12:11 GMT
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I once read an article with one of GM's lead design directors or VP of Product or whatever they call themselves now. They were talking about advances in vehicle spec and he said (paraphrase) "a lot of this is just marketting, not engineering. Why do we put rear disc brakes on all our xx platform cars? Well, because Ford do on their cars in this market. Not becuae they are needed, in fact they are worse for the consumer in terms of price and maintenance but Ford has them so we have to. Ford only have them because we put them on the Cadillac and the Cadillac only got them because their product manager demanded them when they became stock fit on the Corvette. Its not about stopping cars its about selling them."
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2007 12:12:48 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Feb 20, 2007 13:30:24 GMT
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I'm still toying with the idea of putting disc brake at the rear on the mini, I'm in the same boat with failing mot's every year cos they're not happy with the brakes. Mini's really arent heavy enough to warant rear discs. The rear brakes don't really need to do huge amounts on a mini. I hade 7x13's with yokohamas on my mini and the stock rear drums would lock the backs easy. I even locked all 4 wheels at 60mph (90 when I started braking) mine has a tendencey of spinning round under hard braking, thought having discs at the back might help to stop that happening, plus they look cool |
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Feb 20, 2007 13:41:38 GMT
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You should try adjusting cable brakes  This IS going to be a completel nightmare. I have new cables ordered all round and a new shoe expander top replace the one that's sticking on. This is coming up to a whole weekend's work to just troubleshoot why the back brake was sticking on. I have now come to the end of my tether with it and pulled out the credit card and started ordering bits. It will work now, oh yes it will. |
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Feb 21, 2007 13:31:59 GMT
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I once read an article with one of GM's lead design directors or VP of Product or whatever they call themselves now. They were talking about advances in vehicle spec and he said (paraphrase) "a lot of this is just marketting, not engineering. Why do we put rear disc brakes on all our xx platform cars? Well, because Ford do on their cars in this market. Not becuae they are needed, in fact they are worse for the consumer in terms of price and maintenance but Ford has them so we have to. Ford only have them because we put them on the Cadillac and the Cadillac only got them because their product manager demanded them when they became stock fit on the Corvette. Its not about stopping cars its about selling them." Yeah, Honda recently went back to rear drums on its base model civic as part of a cost saving exercise. And the tech editor of Mopar Action Magazine who runs a seriously fast Plymouth Valiant keeps the rear drums on his cars as he feels discs are unnecessary. For the infamous Mopar Action Green Brick check out this link. www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/one-lap-pix.html |
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1995 Range Rover 4.0
1995 BMW 320i Saloon
1989 BMW 325i Touring
1991 Mercedes 300TE-24
1991 Mercedes 190e
1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Feb 21, 2007 13:52:51 GMT
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You should try adjusting cable brakes This IS going to be a completel nightmare. I have new cables ordered all round and a new shoe expander top replace the one that's sticking on. This is coming up to a whole weekend's work to just troubleshoot why the back brake was sticking on. I have now come to the end of my tether with it and pulled out the credit card and started ordering bits. It will work now, oh yes it will. Agree with this one! The cable brakes on the trailer are a complete PITA. |
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1997 TVR Chimaera
2009 Westfield Megabusa
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They should be willing to listen to the owner who is likely to be most knowledgable on the matter (and they'd know if you were taking the pee). My guy took a look at the chart for similar sized (but older) vehicles.
