goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,886
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If I remember correctly, the 1.3 HF is 10.5:1 compression, its the 1.6 HF engine thats 11.3:1 compression. The 1.6 Hf was designed to run on 5 star leaded, and I have read of people having issues with normal/modern fuels. I did the maths according to the tuning books I've read and 10.5:1 should be about as high as I can go on normal unleaded. Superchargers have never really floated my boat, and in my opinion are no more compact or neat that a nice turbo set-up. I've not seen those turbo Fulvia pics before, but I'd say it's not the neatest way round it. Either way I chatted about it at length with a friend today and am leaning more towards n/a tuning, whether its with carbs or fuel injection. It's something new to me really, and keeping things simple but well executed, mechanically elegant even, seems fitting with this car.  I've seen that blog before Craig, there's some really interesting info on there. Nmretro, I've seen those converted carbs before, they are kinda cool If I were to go throttle bodies and injection though I'd probably use tradition throttle bodies, as I think they can look neater. I don't mind that it wouldn't look original. jfulvia, I've got the LHD lights, as mine is a LHD Italian import, so happily I won't have to break out the welder  I'd never really thought about people swapping though, I wonder if there are any europeans that prefer the UK lights!? Small update on my Fulvia for now. I've now for the subframe all bolted up in place.  All lined up and came together fine. And is now noticeably straighter than it was before. It's not perfect though, while bolting the subframe back on, I noticed a new problem. One of the brackets running from the front chassis legs to the front valance had rotted out, and was allowing that corner to drop. I got in there with a scissor jack and lifted the corner back straight before repairing the bracket.  We now have front level, sills level, subframe level, front chassis legs level. The front wings are still about 4mm out of level with each other though. The last of the metal work to do (fingers crossed anyway!) is to correct this left front wheel arch shape, which I got slightly wrong earlier in the year. With the arch being cut out I should be able to correct that wing line no problem. I mean I think you'd have to look pretty hard to know it's not right now, it looks level and right. It's just good to know it's gonna be 'right'. It's such a shame the previous owners had all these repairs done without being sure to keep the car straight. Looking at the old poorly beaten wing repairs, they alone could be the reason for the wing line being dragged a few mm out of place. |
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Last Edit: Nov 9, 2013 20:19:02 GMT by goldnrust
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1. Its gotta be turbo all the way, its the best bang for the buck. 7psi will give you 130ish and most engines will cope with that as standard. Ferriday will make you a decompression plate if you want to drop the Cr down a tad. I have a really good book on turbo set up design if you wanna borrow it....
2. Guzzi Lemans 850 in a Fiat 500 - been wanting to do one for ages, but the current price of 500's puts me off! Maybe a 126 version...75hp shaft drive air cooled with lots of v twin noise....Mmmmmmmm wheelies! :-D
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Koos
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Unfortunately had no opportunity to visit your site for the last two months, as I have mainly been in regions without proper internet connection.. Had such a good time spending all the afternoon following all the ups and downs of your project.. I must say I am absolutely amazed by the work you did and the progress you made! Congratulations! I m absolutely looking forward to whatever you re doing next to your fulvia, especially the go fast bit |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,950
Club RR Member Number: 174
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A turbo wouldn't suit this car.
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,886
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The draw of turbo sometimes is just the 'easy power', as you say Mark. The more I think of it, the more I think n/a is the way for this car though. I keep having to remind myself how much I like driving this car even at 90hp anyway, and that 120hp n/a is a sizeable increase still over that! Also the crispness, throttle response and noise of a good n/a set-up will be so nice.
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I think bike carbs all the way!
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Also for N/A you wont really be adding any weight to the car. But with a turbo you have the turbo, intercooler and pipework plus throttle bodies. Not mush really but if you want to keep that fulvia balance...
Please inject it. I am loving my MS and its tunability.
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,886
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Nov 10, 2013 10:16:04 GMT
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If n/a is the way to go (need to think on it more but it does seem like it at the moment) then I can start with things like exhaust long before I need to make a final decision on injection or not. Sorry House, but I wouldn't touch bike carbs with a barge pole (unless they're on a bike! ). I've been in a few 'professionally' set up bike carbed cars and have always been unimpressed. On top of that I really can't see what they'd give me over either keeping and rejecting my current pair of Solex PHH35 double barrel carbs, or getting hold of a manifold to run twin 40s. The issue with carbs in general is the efficiency if I need to go up to larger choke sizes, and the ability to tune. I will be getting a wideband o2 sensor and gauge, so I can do my own tuning whichever system I go with, but carbs are still so much more of a pain to tune. Not to mention the diagnostic abilities of injection that will in itself help me find more power. On the surface for me Megasquirt and throttle bodies seems the obvious option, but I am just aware it won't be a cheap or simple conversion. If I can stick to the stock carbs and still make good gains life would be simple |
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Nov 10, 2013 13:27:29 GMT
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Keep the tuning retro! [megasquirt won't increase the outright power if the cam/valves/inlet runner diameter are unchanged] twin weber/dellorto 40s can do the airflow you need for 120bhp with the right sized choke insert (might need a smallish ones to help the low speed drivability). Guess bigger cams are available for these motors from somewhere? 280 duration perhaps? Then you'll be wanting fatter valves  [pic courtesy of - this guy's fulvia] [+period tuning mods go down better with buyers if you come to sell]. Great project btw |
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,886
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Nov 10, 2013 14:08:39 GMT
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The the stock cams are already 274° duration with 10.3mm lift they aren't really the limiting factor here and from what I've read I believe without thousands and thousands to spend you can't increase the exhaust valve size, which is the limiting factor. While I know technically theres no power difference between carbs and injection, in the real world I believe there is. Simply because with injection its much easier to keep the ideal air fuel ratio spot on and with electronic ignition also to keep the timing exactly right too. Carbs & dizzy are always a compromise. It's also fair to say that 40mm carbs, especially Webers, would kill the efficiency compared to my 35mm solexs, whereas 38-40mm throttle bodies shouldn't. I what I'll probably end up doing is starting the n/a mods, and see how far I get till the Solexs become the limiting factor and go from there |
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Nov 10, 2013 14:48:15 GMT
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A well tuned Fulvia runs good enough that my choice would be a "fast road" build with exhaust and electronic ignition. There are some that want more but the key to a fun road car is drivability. Sure you can make more power but having a 1500 rpm power band is fine for the track but not so much for the road. One of the pleasures of driving a car with (Italian) dual carbs is the induction noise, I wouldn't want to loose that!
When you get to the engine you might consider fittings to the intake manifold to run a manometer . The exhaust gas sensor will only give you the overall mixture ( unless you will be running 4 probes in the header) but with the manometer you can make sure each barrel is exactly the same.
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1987 Alfa Milano/75
1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia
1976 Alfetta GT race car
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1.3 Rallye S
1968 Fiat 850 spider
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goldnrust
West Midlands
Minimalist
Posts: 1,886
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Nov 11, 2013 20:42:11 GMT
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I shan't be running to the expense of 4 o2 sensors! I have already drilled and tapped some ports into the intake manifold so I can take vacuum readings for each cylinder I totally agree though, area under the curve rather than peak horse power all the way! I've just sold my Maserati wheels, having given up on ever being able to make them fit the Fulvia, so will probably order my sideband o2 sensor kit in the next few days. Made some good progress yesterday, got busy with the grinder and welder and did the re-shaping of the left front wheel arch. In the spring I fixed the rot, but just copied the shape that was already there, but the shape was wrong. It didn't match the right and exaggerated the wonky look of the car. I made a template from the right side, and transferred it over to the left. In the end it wasn't too far out, it was just a bit too wide and flat, if that makes sense. Either way I got the bulk of it sorted yesterday, and today I did a few finishing touches after work.  And that *goes to find tree to touch* is the end of the welding!  D On the axel stands the measurements are still showing the car being about 3-4mm out of square up front, but by eye is so much better overall. It could very easily be my garage floor that is that far out of line. I think I'd be silly to go any further trying to straighten it till it's back on its wheels and got a few miles under it belt for everything to settle in. The main thing is I've found 3 'problems' that could have caused the twist and have fixed all 3. So life in the garage is gonna be a bit quieter and cleaner for a while Gotta finish painting the engine bay, under seal the repaired sections, got some ball joint boots to replace, the brakes need bleeding, interior needs assembling, got a bunch of electrical gremlins to deal with, then it'll be back to dirty work when the filler starts. I've pretty much settled on the idea that I'll get filler on and rough shaped, followed by some temporary paint, then I'll go get an MOT. I don't think I'm going to be able to paint the car in my small garage very well, and its just gonna be too cold and dank to get a good finish anyway. When spring comes paint will be my first priority! |
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Nov 11, 2013 21:08:48 GMT
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While I know technically theres no power difference between carbs and injection, in the real world I believe there is. Simply because with injection its much easier to keep the ideal air fuel ratio spot on and with electronic ignition also to keep the timing exactly right too. Carbs & dizzy are always a compromise. It's also fair to say that 40mm carbs, especially Webers, would kill the efficiency compared to my 35mm solexs, whereas 38-40mm throttle bodies shouldn't. very wise. its just plain ignorance to say EFI wont make a difference. |
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Nov 11, 2013 22:05:59 GMT
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Major milestone reached!! If you do training sessions then consider me booked in |
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Nov 11, 2013 22:52:15 GMT
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Yes! A standing ovation please, for one of our brothers has made it out of hell!
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Nov 11, 2013 23:12:43 GMT
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Standing ovation given. If you are only 3-4 mm out you can probably shim that if you are not happy with results once she hits the road.
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1987 Alfa Milano/75
1979 Alfetta Mille Miglia
1976 Alfetta GT race car
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1.3 Rallye S
1968 Fiat 850 spider
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crahel
Part of things
Posts: 210 
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Well done. arch looks good.
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1973 Lancia Fulvia s2 coupe (sold)
1998 Audi a4 sedan (sold)
2000 Nissan maxima (sold)
2007 Audi convertible.
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DMS
Part of things
Posts: 57
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Have you read back your own posts in this topic? It's funny to read. You started on this side of the gate (happy with your new car) went through the gates of hell. Gave the (rust)devil a spanking and got all the way back. It was quite the workout.
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Congratulations on finishing the weldathon! You beat me to it!
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Nov 12, 2013 20:18:17 GMT
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Congratulations! Can't wait to see this one going back together again, should be epic. |
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I'd never really thought about people swapping though, I wonder if there are any europeans that prefer the UK lights!?
D 
