pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 23, 2013 12:07:21 GMT
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Allready bought the s/c now, magnetic pulley, and some other bits. I'm more of a build it and see what happens, then fix what's wrong kinda person, I know it's not the right way of doing things, doesn't bother me to much If I'd of done things right I wouldn't of made the turbo bike carbs lol but stuck at it and they work fine.
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Dec 23, 2013 12:08:40 GMT
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I totally agree, it's not gunna be easy, but I like that sort of thing, my car is just a toy, not a daily driver, just somthing to keep me getting bored, figuring problems out is part of the fun for me .......then again, if you just want to do it for the sheer hell of it, why not!
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 23, 2013 12:16:45 GMT
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I totally agree, it's not gunna be easy, but I like that sort of thing, my car is just a toy, not a daily driver, just somthing to keep me getting bored, figuring problems out is part of the fun for me .......then again, if you just want to do it for the sheer hell of it, why not! Pretty much mate, get just as much enjoyment building the car as driving it. Sure I'm not alone on that I envy your knowledge and understanding of technical data and stuff, I'm just not geared that way (excuse the pun) Learn by doing,
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Dec 23, 2013 14:33:39 GMT
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What you could do is fit the blower and plumb it into the turbo to see how it works before making any major changes . That should give you the initial shove to get the td04 into positive pressure without worrying about controlling a higher boost level .
If 7psi is where you want to be to keep it in one piece then having the charger after the blower means you'll be at a bar before you know it .
I could make a bar at 1500 rpm with the turbo barely making 2 psi
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Dec 23, 2013 15:14:38 GMT
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Have you figured which TD04 it is yet? SAAB's came with a few different ones, anything from a TD04 15 to a TD04 19!
my 525 has a little TD04-11g, quite a few subarus use a 14g I think.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,925
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Super charger and turbostealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Dec 23, 2013 20:00:36 GMT
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How strong is the gearbox? Will it take the instant power delivery of the supercharger or is it the lag that's saving it from shitting it's pants?
I used to build more gearboxes for people who'd been running nitrous for years reliably but then fitted purge valves than anything else, which is a similar issue.
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 23, 2013 20:47:40 GMT
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Dunno how strong the box is..... One way to find out I guess
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 23, 2013 20:53:25 GMT
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I think it's the simakar g / box bolted to the original k10 super turbo .......could be wrong
Id imagine it'll smash it to pieces,..... But I can swap it for the later k11 gearboxes Which mount all the same and take same shafts
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 23, 2013 21:30:43 GMT
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So here's my revised plan...... The relay is activated by the adjustable shift light on the rev counter Valve 4, is s/c boost control solenoid valve, once solenoid is open, air will operate a wastegate actuator to 0.5 bar Once relay is activated at 3.5k, s/c is disengaged, valve 4 is closed so no air can operate actuator, valve 2 is opened and turbo takes over to handle higher boost pressure On idle valve 1 is opened by vacuum I think it's fairly simple to build like this and can't see to much of a problem with it.........feel free to point out mistakes
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Dec 24, 2013 11:50:10 GMT
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You still haven't said how the motor will behave with a bar of boost up it and your going to find out the first time you press the throttle . Although the eaton can take having the throttle upstream if the charger its a different matter with a column of compressed air behind it . Regardless of the size of bypass etc you still have a situation where the air tried to go backwards through the charger . I wrecked an m45 in a few minutes and there is a vid on YouTube where you can hear the belt slipping as the charger locks up lifting the throttle . I had twin throttles and big bypass valves but only cured it after putting the throttle before the charger .
There is a twin throttle mod for charged mx5,s to help stop this happening . The next issue is getting the charger close enough to the plenum as plenum volume can get pretty big with the throttle in front of the charger causing all sort of idle and poor throttle response issues.
Getting a cooler between the charger and inlet also adds plenum volume , I had to build a chargecooled manifold to get inlet temps under control but I used a huge turbo that could give the cfm at quite low pressure levels .
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Dec 24, 2013 13:09:31 GMT
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The more I think about what parts you already have and where you want to go in moving forward, the more I'm thinking that Froggy is on the right lines with this. I believe that using bike carbs in that way is really likely to start presenting problems (I'm a bit surprised thay haven't already), and I was only half joking when I suggested locking their throttles open and using an upstream throttle body if you wanted to stick with them.
As your turbo system is already in place, and your existing turbo (if it doesn't begin to make boost until 4000rpm) is a good bit too big, just mounting the supercharger and have in feed the existing turbo makes a lot of sense.
You could then either de-energise the electromagnetic clutch and bypass the charger as you plan, or simply continue to drive the charger continuously....as the turbo starts to make boost and pull airflow through the intake there will be very little pressure differential across the chargers rotors so it will have very little drive losses. BUT, it may then itself create an intake restriction to the turbo's compressor inducer?
If you reckon that your carbs are standing up to full boost from your existing turbo then in theory nothing should really change there, but I'd still be concerned about having plenty of boost control capacity at your plenum either by bypassing back to upstream of your turbo or simply by large blow off valve.
The rate of boost rise might be controlled more closely with an external wastegate used in addition to the turbos integral one too?
Is your existing turbo the type with the triangular 3-bolt fixing flange pattern? If it is, the 2.5 litre Shogun/ Pajero has an 11G and the 2.8 has from memory a 12C. The next commpn size up are the stock ones quite commonly left over after upsizing on Imprezzas.
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 24, 2013 13:48:47 GMT
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I'm adding another wastegte type actuator in the circuit now See the revised pic. My td04 has a t2 type flange, if that helps identify it lol
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 24, 2013 13:51:27 GMT
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Once I have all the parts in front of me and see the complexity of fitting the electro clutch, and what space there is , il decide properly on what I'm doing, electro clutch pulley only cost £16
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Dec 25, 2013 14:24:22 GMT
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Where did you get the electro clutch pulley Mr Pork?
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Koos
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 25, 2013 16:13:15 GMT
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eBay mate, vw tsi clutch pulley. Brand new £16 It's built into the water pump so either ginna try mount it to micra water pump, or alternator
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Dec 26, 2013 18:29:20 GMT
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Thanks! Any idea how much hp it can handle?
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Koos
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 26, 2013 18:47:24 GMT
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Not sure, think the 1.4 tsi is 140hp,
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rodney
Posted a lot
https://www.facebook.com/RD-vehicle-transport-and-recovery-services-525622614268010/
Posts: 1,677
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Dec 28, 2013 20:05:41 GMT
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport
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sweep
Part of things
Posts: 411
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Dec 28, 2013 20:34:30 GMT
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I'm going to throw another idea into the mix, compound charging. A larger turbo blowing into a smaller one. Sounds wrong but it's incredibly efficient, all the pro's of twin charging but you don't get the power losses of a S/C. Space is an issue though, especially in a Micra.
Redline did a feature on it a while back, I'll dig it up and get it posted.
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pork
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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Dec 28, 2013 21:00:39 GMT
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Just waiting on clutch/pulley, and Gunna build it my way, see how it holds, cry when it breaks, then come crawling for answers
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