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ok I am modding my viva to run a fuel injection engine, so looking at the shape of the tank, its not very deep, I figure that a swirl pot might be in order, with me so far ;D
Anyhow The fuel outlet on the tank seems to be the imperial equivalent of around 6mm, this is on the larger viva tank that originally supplied a 1800 automatic viva, so the easy solution is to utilise the original feed and fit a return to the top of the tank, bearing in mind that I will be putting in a Vauxhall 2.0 8v,
Would I need to fit an 8mm feed to supply the low pressure feed to the swirl pot, or will I be ok with the original supply pipe,
The return from the swirl pot to the tank, what is used to stop the low pressure fuel pump from continuously pumping once the swirl pot is full?
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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Nov 10, 2012 11:06:12 GMT
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The low pressure pump should keep pumping, to ensure that the pot is always full, best to use the original mech one if you can, return the excess fuel from the fuel rail back to the swirl pot too.
The 6 mm fuel line should be OK, don't forget, you'll be using no more fuel then with carbs, it's just maintaining a consistent supply to the EFI pump, you can damage them pretty quickly if they run dry.
Ask me how I know!
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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Nov 10, 2012 11:08:01 GMT
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The return from the swirl pot to the tank, what is used to stop the low pressure fuel pump from continuously pumping once the swirl pot is full? Should have added the return from pot to tank does will keep the pump pumping.
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Nov 10, 2012 12:00:15 GMT
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The new engine has no provision for a mechanical pump,
I am planning on fitting an electric one in the boot,
My understanding of electric low pressure pumps, fitted with carbs, the float needle cuts the fuel flow, which means the pump shuts Down,
I just wondered whether there was a valve in the return line which replicated this, but if the pump just continually runs, then that's easy!
Many thanks!
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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Nov 10, 2012 12:07:57 GMT
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Is a schematic borrowed from the Megasquirt Manual.
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Nov 10, 2012 14:31:05 GMT
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That's very helpfull!
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Nov 10, 2012 16:02:06 GMT
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Forget any mechanical pump in an EFi system the residual presuure will return any excess fuel to the tank, personly i prefer to return the fuel to the main tank not the swirl pot of you can suffer from fuel vaporisation (sp?) returning it to the tank allows it to be cooled by the rest of the fuel not sit in the swirl pot and going straight back into a hot pump but it depends on the size of the swirlpot. TBH i'd just do as most do and cut open the standard tank and insert a swirlpot inside it, saves on pumps, pipes and vap issues.
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R.I.P photobucket
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Nov 10, 2012 16:37:54 GMT
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Forget any mechanical pump in an EFi system the residual presuure will return any excess fuel to the tank, personly I prefer to return the fuel to the main tank not the swirl pot of you can suffer from fuel vaporisation (sp?) returning it to the tank allows it to be cooled by the rest of the fuel not sit in the swirl pot and going straight back into a hot pump but it depends on the size of the swirlpot. TBH i'd just do as most do and cut open the standard tank and insert a swirlpot inside it, saves on pumps, pipes and vap issues. My plan is to fit the pumps and swirl pot in the boot, well specifically in a sealed but easly opened steel box in the boot, with the return from the rail into the tank, and the return from the swirl pot into the same tank fitting!
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rodney
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https://www.facebook.com/RD-vehicle-transport-and-recovery-services-525622614268010/
Posts: 1,677
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could cut a efi tank open and graft its pump and swirl pot into your current tank , ive built a few and it isnt hard,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport
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i cut the pot & pump/mount from a donor & fit in original tank. lot less to go wrong in use & all self contained. don't get why people want to put 2 pumps & seperate swirlpots etc in the boot.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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avg
Part of things
Posts: 168
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Nov 11, 2012 10:49:16 GMT
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don't know where your tank is situated but on my Corsair I just have the standard Sierra pump mounted at the same level as the bottom of the tank. I put a pipe into the side of the tank with a brass water tank fitting with a copper pipe soldered into it for the feed (15mm dia) and the return fron the motor goes into the old supply pipe in the fuel sender. No swirl pots no problems. Been running like this for 15 years. Been down to 2 gallons in the tank without problems. Paul
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rodney
Posted a lot
https://www.facebook.com/RD-vehicle-transport-and-recovery-services-525622614268010/
Posts: 1,677
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Nov 11, 2012 10:54:08 GMT
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if you have a side mounted tank like on mk1 and 2 escorts then a mini cooper injection tank is a easy option withs its in tank pump,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,214
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Nov 11, 2012 12:56:36 GMT
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If you can build a system that runs without a separate swirl tank and all it's associated pipes, tanks and filters, it's better. Less chance of leaks, a cleaner easier install.
Perhaps you can get a cheap tank from a breakers and cut the bits you need off it, that way, you could have a in-tank pump, the best way to do it.
I got lucky and found an injection tank from a PI for my Triumph, so have removed the swirl pot and 2nd pump, that were fitted when the car had a Megasquirt.
I did run the excess from the fuel rail into the swirl, never had any problems with vaporization, even when driving over mountains in the South of France.
Trigger wheels detaching however....!
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Nov 12, 2012 14:27:01 GMT
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sitting in traffic in the summer is the worst for fuel vap, ask will Hollman off PPC about the capri, it drove him nuts keeps cutting out in queues.
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R.I.P photobucket
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Nov 12, 2012 20:25:21 GMT
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Have you considered one of these combined units from Webcon? Spotted it advertised in RetroFord a month or so ago.
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Nov 12, 2012 22:24:23 GMT
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Have you considered one of these combined units from Webcon? Spotted it advertised in RetroFord a month or so ago. Looks a good solution, not sure I can afford it at the moment though, I was thinking of using an in tank pump in a home made swirl pot, but I haven't spotted a suitable pump, any ideas on that?
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The only in tank fuel pump I've ever used previously (about 10 years ago in a stockcar) was a Rover 827 unit. Maybe worth a shot, there's a couple on the 'bay at the moment.
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Nov 13, 2012 10:54:18 GMT
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Have a look at The ford Focus, this has a fuel pump and collecter all in one unit.
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1961 FORD POPULAR 100e 2.0 dohc Mk1 2dr Ford cortina
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,824
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Nov 13, 2012 11:32:36 GMT
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I have run 300hp in a similar way to AVG has, took a large fuel filter, (audiV8) with a bosch injection pump, both mounted externally below the level of the bottom of the tank, this always give you a head of fuel on top of the pump, the large filter gives a small reserve of fuel if you should pick up air, the pickup was a length of copper pipe which was fitted into the bottom front edge of the tank using a bulkhead fitting, going to the rear of the tank, and a devilblis spray gun stem filter on the end of that, , this allows for the original fuel pipe to be used as a return, pipe size for the feed was made up in 6mm/1/4"bore steel bundy tube, Using the old fuel pipe is possibly not a good idea to run as a pressurised feed, you can crank it up to 60psi, which on old pipe probably is dubious, use it as the return and then you are talking nominal pressures, I NEVER had any fuel pickup problems with this setup, and Bortaf will agree, the car was worked rather hard.
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2012 11:37:18 GMT by v8ian
Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Nov 13, 2012 23:45:03 GMT
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I'd always stay away from external swirl pots and pumps after this, there are just to many wiring connections and joints to worry about, this was caused by a faulty fuel pump, also make sure your "metal box" is properly fire proof or you have a proper firewall between the boot and the interior. This was my gear, up all set up properly.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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