eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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This deserves something much better and more refined than a rover v8, I reckon a BOB will work nicely in this. My dad had a scorpio cossie with that lump and gearbox and considering the heavy ugly lump it had to pull it didn't half shift. Plus wet roundabouts were EPIC fun! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (I very much liked the scorpio/granada from the 1985-1998 models). They drove very comfortably and pretty fast for even the 2.0 16v dohc. I agree that a Cosworth BOB should be epic fun in a rear wheel drive 1300kg car (the BOB itself was slightly over 1500kg). |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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it's nice to see a mk1 coupe get a proper build ;D and even better to see one with a BOB and autobox going in with the EEC V brain as well  will you be getting the shell dipped after the blasting and repair work? Thanks for the comments! I have to wonder why you chose to add that particular smiley to your use of EEC V comment. I will not be getting the body dipped after blasting. Several reasons for that. Dipping is far more expensive and much less readily available and I've heard too many horror stories about acid staying behind and causing damage. Besides, if I were to dip, what would be the benefit of shot blasting first? To me these are mutually exclusive choises: either you dip or you shot blast. Plan is to get the shell and panels shot blasted/thermically cleaned and lightly blasted. Primer everything in the latest and greatest etch primer that is supposed to be so good it doesn't absorb moisture. Then where welding will be done, the primer will be sanded off, welding will be done and the repair will be reprimed. When time comes to start painting, most of that first layer of primer will be sanded off before building up the right layers (on my previous restoration there were 11 layers (not just coats, but layers of different products). |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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But nothing beats the sound of a smoothly running V8! I had the option when I bought the TVR of that or a V8 Chimaera but whilst the V8 is a lovely noise I actually prefer the V6 noise - its more sporty plus its said a good V6 isnt far off the sound of a V12 (back in the 80's the alfa v6 for example was pronounced by several magazines as the best sounding mass produced engine of all time and they said comparable to some Ferrari V12's) what I like about dropping in the Cosworth V6 like youve done, is that its a logical progression from the 70's Ford Essex V6 that was fitted to many mk1 grannys - and is what Ford themselves fitted to its modern incarnation. in effect its a modernised classic and still sticking with original manufacturer parts for the mechanicals is a nice touch- a Ford V8 wouldnt (in my eyes at least) be doing that, as Ford US is very different to Ford Europe I don't really know about the sounds. I've never personally heard a V6 that can match a V8 or V12, excluding the high price sportscars/supercars. They get their exhaustnote tuned to be awesome. But of regular run of the mill luxury V6 or V8 engined cars I usually prefer the V8. And if one compares with the american muscle car sound then definately a V8. That doens't mean a V6 can't sound great. I had a 2.6 liter cologne v6 originally. Changed over from carb to granada 2.8i (1987/8 granada/scorpio only) efi with open air filters on the airflow meters and that engine exhaust note when put through it's paces was absolutely stunning!!  I agree with the idea behind evolving the running gear of the original granada with later model but still Ford (even still granada/scorpio) running gear. That was kind of my intention. Keep it a cool and comfortable cruiser, but slightly more modernised. The BOA and BOB cosworth engines are direct descendants of the original 2.0-2.8 Cologne V6 engines as fitted to german built ford models. That is also why they are a popular choice. The fit on the standard mounts without any modification. There is work to be done to fit better cooling, change over the power steering pump and hoses to work with the original steering rack, etc. but it is a relatively easy swap. I still would like a V8 better, but unless I find one very cheap and still in good order, it's not very likely to be a short term thing. So I'm counting on using the BOB this time around. With a bit of luck I'll be doing a testrun on the "bench" with the engine put on a frame (seen in the pics, but with engine mounts and stabilisation added), cooling added, wiring loom added, fuel pump added and gearbox as well to see if it will run with the standard ecu and pats and if I can get it through some revs and all gears. I've got the full loom. I've got a ecu with matching key and i've got a pats box with matching key (but missing the matching ecu unfortunately). So depending on whether the pats code is in the ecu or the pats module I should either way have a startable combination... I hope...    And all wires that run from the ecu to engine and box or from engine and box to powerdistribution etc. marked up. I'm going to do a trial run with the full loom first, then if it will run, I'll start cutting out what I determined not to need.  |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,000 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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that smiley is because most people ditch the EEC V and either go for BOA loom and ecu, or just go for aftermarket management  The main reason on the BOB is because the engine harness between the heads and to the autobox breaks down and shorts out  and thats a fair point on not dipping though, its not like you are cutting corners with what likes like a monumental strip down/rebuild  |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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that smiley is because most people ditch the EEC V and either go for BOA loom and ecu, or just go for aftermarket management The main reason on the BOB is because the engine harness between the heads and to the autobox breaks down and shorts out and thats a fair point on not dipping though, its not like you are cutting corners with what likes like a monumental strip down/rebuild I figured as much!! And boy is it true. The wiring is very bad in the V between the heads. My engine has had it done, but I also have an original loom that has broken away insulation everywhere. A wonder that car ran flawlessly...   I do really hope to be getting the car running on it's EEC V, but as I am also using the gearbox, I don't have to fool it into thinking the box is still there...it simply is. But still the systems are so integrated that I'm a little aprehensive in just assuming it wil run in on the first turn of the key. I'm anticipating a non starter, although that would be a mojo buster... I hope to know in the next two weeks... |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,000
Club RR Member Number: 77
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if you do find yourself in a pickle with the wiring, theres some very helpful people on fordpower.org.uk that are very knowledgeable with all things euro ford wiring ;D doesnt look too bad with the loom laid out on the board though, so should be good foro a starter 1st time (fingers crossed) |
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Great work! Such a beautiful body shape too, maybe one of euro ford's best. (with the p7 taunus as a close second, but i'm biased  ) can someone pls post up a pic of both types of coupe - cos I have to say I didnt realise there was more than one type As you wish: Uk model (look at the rear side windows and bodyline). Image from google.  And my car, european mainland model:  See the difference?? I've always thought the coke bottle shape was a '72 only model, as the only ones i've seen have been '72. At least up here and in sweden i've seen loads of straight ones, but the beautiful coke bottle shaped one is very rare. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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I've always thought the coke bottle shape was a '72 only model, as the only ones i've seen have been '72. At least up here and in sweden i've seen loads of straight ones, but the beautiful coke bottle shaped one is very rare. The coke bottle model as far as I know was built in Germany from 72-74, when it was replaced by the straighter model that was also produced in the UK. But I believe that too was only produced from 74-77, maybe 78. It died when the MkII was introduced... It is quite a rare sight these days and it is becoming more and more rare. Partly because of the banger circuit that likes them for their strength (although that sounds bad keep in mind that it's a source of spares for the true car lover) and partly because they are 40 years old and have several built in rust traps... I love the shape as it's quite a "muscular" looking vehicle. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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if you do find yourself in a pickle with the wiring, theres some very helpful people on fordpower.org.uk that are very knowledgeable with all things euro ford wiring ;D doesnt look too bad with the loom laid out on the board though, so should be good foro a starter 1st time (fingers crossed) I'm registered there to... The loom is worse then it shows in these pictures. At every curve/split/joint several wires are damaged. And even the wires that are still in one piece have insulation cracked about every cm. The further away from the block, more towards the gearbox, the wires become better, but as they run through the V as well every wire should be replaced. That will be some work yet... But I'm not going to do that yet as I have a supposedly repaired loom and I hope that will run. |
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Great work! Such a beautiful body shape too, maybe one of euro ford's best. (with the p7 taunus as a close second, but i'm biased ) As you wish: Uk model (look at the rear side windows and bodyline). Image from google. And my car, european mainland model: See the difference?? I've always thought the coke bottle shape was a '72 only model, as the only ones i've seen have been '72. At least up here and in sweden i've seen loads of straight ones, but the beautiful coke bottle shaped one is very rare. Personally I'd have either, or both ! ;D I always thought from the outset that it would have been ideal as a hatchback although they hadn't really got going when the coupe was brought out. & yes probably one of the best models that they produced. |
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Todos con Lorca
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I love this shape granny, and its so nice to see them being saved rather then raced as I see them regularly, and most I see on the track are not rot boxes, it seems to be the minter they are , the more "cred" they get for racing it, infact recently, I saw written on a bonnet on one " another one saved from restoration"
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 cars: orion 1600 i ghia mk2 orion 2.2 vtec ghia mk1 |
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mrx
Part of things
Posts: 134
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A rover V8 is neither sexy nor Ford produced. 32v would be nice. We'll see! How about keeping it German then   Doner 7 series can be had for cents, can cash in what you don't need, and if your savy you can keep the abs and asc. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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Knowing very little about BMW's, what type exactly should I be searching for?? Just to see what price range I'd be in here in holland. Still, may be a German engine but it would be even better if it were a ford engine. But are these engines usable with their original management or do I need to take into account that aftermarket ecu will need to be bought as well??
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M62TUB44 would probably be the one you want, it's a m62b44 with vanos, so it would be reasonably cheap to run. It's rated at 282hp and 440nm, although many think the real numbers are a lot higher.
The older m60 engines want copious amounts of fuel and are generally considered a lot less reliable engine.
I don't know the details of using the stock ecu. It's probably not the easiest task in the world, but it has been done. The stock ecu is also mappable for a supercharger or turbo, as long as you don't go crazy with the boost.
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mrx
Part of things
Posts: 134
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I'd use the entire loom, that way you can have anti lock brakes, and assisted stability control, also keeping the enitre loom can give you instant electric windows, central locking, electric sun shine roof, cruise control, etc etc.
a 1996 740i can be had here in the uk for around £500, parts of the car sell for around £450, scrap weighs in at around £150, so you can have an engine, gearbox, full wireing loom for as little as £0
But if you have your mind set on ford.
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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I had another 2 sessions working on the car. Yesterday I finished the preparations for the blast process. I have now sanded back to metal all the parts that have a higher risk of warping during shot blasting! A small milestone for me personally as it means I have done more the past month and a half then in the past 2 years. And besides that, it means I'm on the virge of serious progress!! The stripped roof:  The stripped rear outer wings:   The red part still visible is a part that will be cut off to allow excellent access to the area ford was clever enough to fill with foam so it too can be shot blasted well. And it needs it, cause there is some damage from it being saturated with water. A previously repaired wheel arch (both sides done during my ownership at the time of it's previous restoration in 2006):  And as it stands ready for the blaster:  It will move there friday the 16th!! It will take them a week to finish all body panels and the body. So hopefully the 23rd of november the car will be on it's way back to the paintbooth for primer! A short trip of 8km which is planned to be executed immediately after finishing the blasting to prevent corrosion from forming again. The plans from then on are simple yet time consuming: My body man will be starting the welding work to be done to the original shell. I will assist in making repair panels and dressing the welds. Saves me money to do as much of that myself. That should see the body restored to factory. In the mean time I will focus on the subproject of modifying the front floors to accept the new seat tracks, the new rear seats and also rear seat belts. I think I'll get started on that this friday and next monday, the last two sessions before the car is off. After that I will put in the engine to see if there is any way I can get the airco unit from the scorpio in the car. I need to use the heater box and condensor box and they both are pretty large. I guess it will mean modifying the scuttle and hoping the dash will have room enough to do this. Either I then decide to bin the aircon plan or get the modifications done and welded. That should conclude the welding. But by then you'll have had several updates hopfully, as these plans will surely take some time. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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I'd use the entire loom, that way you can have anti lock brakes, and assisted stability control, also keeping the enitre loom can give you instant electric windows, central locking, electric sun shine roof, cruise control, etc etc. a 1996 740i can be had here in the uk for around £500, parts of the car sell for around £450, scrap weighs in at around £150, so you can have an engine, gearbox, full wireing loom for as little as £0 But if you have your mind set on ford. My mind's not set firmly on Ford as fas as engines go, but still I do feel that a Frd should be powered by a Ford engine... But I understand that for the money invested, there are several (cheaper) choices from beemer, lexus to even rover. I'll be looking into it for the future, so no rush. As fas as using the loom to gain electric windows, central locking, cruise control, aircon etc. My car already has or will be fitted with electric windows, central locking, alarm with remote start, cruise control, even rain sensors and automatic lights on/off... Some comes from the donor scorpio loom, some is added to the original loom (separate fusebox). This is meant to be a luxury fast cruiser. The hardest to get working are probably the cruise control (need to figure out the buttons to get the original scorpio cruise to work) and the aircon, but that mainly because of physical limitations in the car due to sizes of the components. |
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When I look at this to say I am stunned is the biggest understatement of the decade... The amount of thought and work that has gone in to this car so far tells me it is going to be something very, VERY special indeed... Good luck with everything, I just cannot wait to see that last picture that tells us that this great car is ready for you to enjoy on the open road once more |
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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When I look at this to say I am stunned is the biggest understatement of the decade... The amount of thought and work that has gone in to this car so far tells me it is going to be something very, VERY special indeed... Good luck with everything, I just cannot wait to see that last picture that tells us that this great car is ready for you to enjoy on the open road once more Thanks! You're definitely right about the amount of thought... and work!But I've been thinking for several years now... ;D ;D Most of my plans will be easily achievable with just some time and effort, but the things I mentioned in the previous reply are things that do worry me some, the aircon and the cruise control. But hopefully I'll get that sorted as well. If not I'll use aftermarket CC and possibly just ditch the aircon. But first I'll have a very good look around when the time comes. I do really miss driving it, It went of the road in march 2010.... But when it's back, it will be better then ever before! And for once, I'm starting to see that it will be finished one day. Hopefully march 2013 will see it quite some way along... But time moves so fast so I'm not set on that date. I'm only set on doing it right this time around! |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,543
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Nov 14, 2012 14:44:23 GMT
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I love it when a plan comes together!! The past weeks I didn't have much to report. Slowly but surely I was working towards getting the body shot blasted and peparing some engine related research such as correct routing of colling hoses, correct routing of vacuum hoses etc. This is just a small update in that respect.   I finished the prep for blasting with cutting a hole in the right rear wing. Ford used foam behind it and I wanted to be sure the blaster would be able to get at it.  I removed as much as I could.  Making the hole didn't bother me as the area was ridden with holes rusted through already and the area had to be patched as it was.  With that done, the shell was ready for blasting! I got confirmed that friday the 16th the car will be put on a trailer at 14:00hrs to leave for blasting! This made my day as I ve been working towards this goal for a while now and last week it was starting to look like we wouldn't be able to arrange transport. But my bodyman mate has come trough with flying colours! He even arranged for transport back which is great, as that needs to happen literally within minutes after finishing the work to get primer on asap to prevent flash rust. The car has to make a 5 mile trip from one place to the other. So in approximately two weeks some real progress should be reported! And welding will commence! For me personally these are big things... On another note, I got word my new fasteners will arrive tomorrow. This means that this weekend I will sort out what to send out for treatment: blasting and P1000 coating. I have about 20KG of old fasteners, can't wait to see how much the new stuff will add. But at 1,34 euro the kilo I can send off quite a lot as 55 euro is their minimum order amount. This will also take about two weeks, so this means that soon either I can work on the body at the shop or work on rebuilding the full suspension units at home (keeping in mind that I do need to be able to get them out of my shed where access is tight)!! So I can generate progress there as well. Guess this weekend I need to spend cleaning up the place so I can work in it! Lastly I have been pretty succesful in preparing the BOB engine for a startup having found out how the vacuum should run and how cooling is routed. The weeks that the car is off I'm aiming at further preparing the engine and stand for a test! Thanks for reading. |
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