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I'm sure 99.9% of people who bought a new Cortina or Sierra were considered unimaginative and such (and it was perhaps true). But as soon as these people move on to something else (e.g.: Mondeo), the old cars fall into a different category and eventually become cool. All new cars will be retro some day, and all new cars will, in some capacity, be considered cool. I can't think of one pre-1990 car that I could post up on here and not get a positive comment about from someone. As much as I detest the Picasso, Galaxy, Meriva, whatever... they will all be cool some day.
Besides that, "cool" is subjective. Many new car drivers think my Merc is seriously uncool. That's fine - I know better. But they think they know better...
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Absolutely. "time heals old wounds" or put it another way " a classic car is just an old banger thats old enough for everyone to have fogotten how cr@p they were when they were new".
Anything based on nostalgia just requires you to go "oh, not seen one of them around for ages!"
dp - I'm not closed minded, I just don't like the Yaris Verso. (Or the Skoda Roomster.) Same as I don't like seafood or Westlife. Just not my thing.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Disliking a cars styling is not being closed minded...it's called taste and everyones is different. Take the first facelift Hyundai coupe. I personally think it's one of the most disgusting looking cars made and in twenty years time I will still hold that opinion. That wouldn't stop me from remarking about it's rareity should there still be any then.
Twenty years ago, the worst styling got was dull, now the worst it gets is downright ugly. I cannot think of a great deal of cars built prior to 1990 that would actually consider to be really ugly but there have been plenty since. Mechanical innovation is quite thin on the ground these days too as virtually everything follows the same pattern of design and construction. This is another aspect that makes an old car interesting and often renders a new car dull. These factor plus the ridiculous degree of platform sharing between marques these days makes modern machinery more akin to a domestic appliance that ever before.
Sadly, what keeps old cars alive is nostalgia by people for the cars they knew and worked on as they grew up. These days there are very few people who are DIY-ing it in the way they did during the 70's and 80's and new rules means these cars will dissapear from the roads faster than ever before. The changes I've seen in my 20 years of driving leads me to the conclusion that the "classic car" as we know it is a dying breed and that nostalgia (if there is any) for the current crop of cars will be more media based than metal based in twenty years time.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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I agree and disagree... I read an article in a late 1960s edition of the Sunday Times which said exactly the same thing! cars of the 1960s were all too similar, too samey, built to a formula. Not like the 1930s when creativity was shown in every design.... But by the smae chalk I defy anyone to identify the differences between a Morris 8 Series II and a Singer Bantam if you take the radiator grilles off!
Badge engineering and common platforms are nothing new.
What happens is we get nostalgic for older designs as they become less common and we appreciate stuff we never gave a second thought too because it was so ubiquitous before.
Actively ugly cars are great. What is ugly now is quirky and "redolant of the period" in 20 years time. Tell me a 1961 DeSoto isn't the fugliest thing evAh? I love them. And the mis-shapen bodge-job of the roofline on the Chrysler Fifth Avenue? I hated the "Bustle Back" Seville when it was new, and so did lots of people yet a year or so back it was voted a "milestone design" by the Design Institute (or whoever they are) in the US and now I look at it and say "damn thats good, that really is pretty cool".
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I agree and disagree... I read an article in a late 1960s edition of the Sunday Times which said exactly the same thing! cars of the 1960s were all too similar, too samey, built to a formula. Not like the 1930s when creativity was shown in every design.... But by the smae chalk I defy anyone to identify the differences between a Morris 8 Series II and a Singer Bantam if you take the radiator grilles off! These days, to find anything mechanically unusual is very much a rareity whereas in the 70's there were plenty of cars that were rear engined, air cooled or even two stroke. Cars such as the Smart are the only small cars to stray from the transverse engine FWD formula and how many small cars are front engined and RWD now? BMW. Granted, but not on anywhere near the scale to which it is done now. Nissans are Renaults, Saabs are Vauxhalls and Subarus, Jags are Fords...the list is endless. Giant corporations now share as few platforms as possible between as many different brands as they can to save cash and the result is the same car with a different look and a different badge. These days the majority of cars utilise a platform shared by others whereas 30 years ago it was the minority. True, but ugly is still ugly ...it's just old and ugly. I'm not saying they don't have period charm, I'm just saying they don't magically become beautiful and cool once they are 30 years old. A Datsun 120Y is still as ugly now as it was when it was new and I still don't want one now as much as I didn't want one ten years ago ;D
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Very interesting points RatDat and Alistair. I think thats whats charming about old cars, how they were put together, how they made em, and mad designs they made work! These days i don't feel like i know who makes what, making things kinda faceless and uncharacteristic. even the reported Austin Rover cars that were buggered up by annoyed workers have that character even if the current owner is harrassed! Also the fact that budgeting and material costs, world economy has more to do with it all too. Yeah theres some interesting new cars i'll play with but it will never be the same again. BTW i still cant think of a car that can never be 'cool' again, apart from an Audi TT due to faults i heard of, not cool (i reserve to be wrong), and Lexus Alan Partridge style! you never know though....
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Agree and disagree again! Back in the 70s There were a lot of "different" cars, true but a lot of them were clones of each other, and a hell of a lot of them were Cortinas! Slewed survival rates and selective memory mnight make those days seem more diverse than they were... Today we have elecrtric and hybrid cars, TDI, rotary, multii valve 3 cyls, V8s, V10s, SUVs, civilised pickups, mini 4x4s and a whole range of vehicles we never had back then. The fact we see them every day makes them seem less diverse. The Mk2 Cavalier, Daewoo Espero and Oldsmobile Firenza were just three of the 20 or so different cars built on the same platform, and they all look and feel different. I can tell a Mk2 Cav by the way it smells inside. Weird, sit in one, breath in and its 1984 all over again... I can't really comment on the differences between a 2007 Vectra and Saab, Cadillac BLS, etc because I've not been in any of them let alone driven one. And yeah, the '61 DeSoto is as screamingly ugly now as it was in 1961. Its one of the few cars which makes me actually laugh when I see one. Probably the reason they sold so dismally. Very rare now, I ache to own one. WTF is going on here?
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Last Edit: Jan 4, 2007 10:31:31 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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This actually deserves a caption... "Get in the goddamn car Dorothy!" "You can't make me, please don't make me, I'd rather die than ride in that ugly contraption!"
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Desoto is certainly unusual at the front but I`m not sure slanted headlights are enough to make it ugly, I think thats an attractive car, myself.
I suppose in years to come even Nissan Notes will have some appeal to someone, when they're all gone and the smug lifestyle air about them has been replaced by an amusing naffness, its just that with something like a 1999 Mondeo you can see the future Cortina beginning to take shape, but the Nissan Note has no historic equivalent which makes it hard to see what it`ll seem like in 20 years, leading me to perhaps wrongly believe it`ll never be appreciated.
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its not just the canted headlights, its that whole wierd upper grill snorkel thing which protrudes 3" forward of the rest of the front of the car. It almost distracts you from the (DeSoto signature) over use of gord anodising on the brightwork. Almost - but not quite. Then theres the fact they seem to be using left over 1959 Buick turn signals and whats that, fins on the front wings as well? It goes on... I love it. I want one bad. I almost nearly bought a '60 Desoto a few years ago but it wasn't ugly enough. The '60 Imperial Southampton I almost bought about the same time was uglier. Which was better. But still no '61 DeSoto. I still regret not buying a 1957 DeSoto Firesweep 4 door in tripple-tone pink and black back in 1987 or 1988 which was up for £795 ono long MOT. Could I insure the thing? Nope. Gonads. Should have bought it and kept it until I could insure the bleeder. Even back then that was cheap for one of them. Looking x20 for the same car now.
And don;t start me on lifestyle vehicles, I've come close to a soapbox on that a few times. I'm working up to it and may explode into a whole new topic on that...
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Last Edit: Jan 4, 2007 14:22:50 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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People try so hard to work it all out and tell others what they should think but it seems it's only human to be fickle. I have flip flopped on opinions so many times in my life as something I once thought was seriously uncool once has me salivating on e-bay 10 years later.
I think a lot of people, myself included and many on here I imagine, like to buck the trend.
Ironically since being on here for a while I've started desiring a new Mini and I swear it's just because so many on here hate them.
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