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Sept 25, 2012 17:04:22 GMT
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They should just abolish vehicle tax. The price of fuel is never going to come back down and as has already been said, it's the simpleast way to tax people on how many miles they do etc. Black boxes are utter Bullplop, we're monitored enough in our day-to-day lives as it is.
They'll never abolish it though, it's a way of getting money out of us and they'll more than likely think of another way of getting more.
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1993 Mercedes-Benz 190e LE in Azzuro Blue.
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Sept 25, 2012 17:16:40 GMT
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Its not going to happen to us as such but with the advent of driverless cars round the corner and in any case most new cars already have black boxes fitted in the guise of interactive satnav systems. the technology is already here and most of us use it every day. The technology is already here they just haven't exploited it yet.
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sweaty palms slip off joystick
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Sept 25, 2012 18:31:49 GMT
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All these schemes seem set to consume as much money as they would take in. Mind you I have a strong suspicion that at the moment the total Vehicle Excise Duty income is spent on just administering the tax disc process at the DVLA. I thought that too, but a Freedom of Information Act request shows the revenue from VED is staggeringly high, almost tenfold the operational costs.
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Rich G
Posted a lot
Keyboard Worrier
Posts: 1,059
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Sept 25, 2012 18:43:23 GMT
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How are the silly fuggers going to stick a black box on a 40+ year old vehicle??? "They" don't have to, most of us already carry around that sort of technology in our cars all the time, don't we?
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Sept 25, 2012 19:44:22 GMT
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don't like the idea of black boxes, to easy to monitor your driving/speed for my liking... Welcome to Überwachungsstaat aka Big Brother! Trucks are being monitored with black boxes in germany... Foreign trucks need to buy a ticket and theyr regs are checked by the system pictured above... Thing is; any number plate is checked. Officially data sets of car plates are being deleted immedietely (the scanners can differentiate between truck & car!) - but who's to controll that!? In fact, certain authorities have access to the data collected by the system... Next time you go to germany, you better put on a ski-mask & fake number plates if you want to stay inkognito ;D (disclaimer: don't! ;D)
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Porsche
West Midlands
Kev from B'ham.
Posts: 4,725
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Sept 25, 2012 20:20:48 GMT
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If you drive a Old vehicle constructed before 1 January 1973 you don't have to pay vehicle tax anyhow. So lets all by classics, eh?
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Sept 25, 2012 23:20:43 GMT
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all the gantrys going up on motorways over the last few years are the ideal location for road toll monitoring. they require no man power to operate 24/7,will cause zero congestion to collect the toll.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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Sept 25, 2012 23:31:23 GMT
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THEY will never bring in a system that collects less tax. It's Casino rules, the house always wins.
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Sept 26, 2012 9:48:35 GMT
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they already wanted to levy and additional charge for admin at the dvla for change of owner and the like (i think) the tech for vehicle racking has existed for years and is incredibly cheap, i imagine manufacturers are lobbying for some serious compulsory data logging as it would give them an out of lots of warranty if they can show you were giving it excessive beans etc, the plug and the space under the dash for the box is probably already there waiting to be filled
my dismal view of future motoring legalities..... tax discs will be repurposed as some sort of carbon offset rolling registration thing, ie all cars are 2000 pounds a year but your prius gets 1950 offset, so give us 50 please. Your rangey sport get 50 offset, give us 1950 please. duty on fuel will remain sections of motorway will become compulsory tolled more city centre low emmission zones, expanded low emmission zones with tolls a la londinium we'll see some weird payment systems being suggested ie mobile phone numbers attached to reg numbers and tolls being added to your phone bill etc etc
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Sept 26, 2012 10:40:08 GMT
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Well, in South Australia they've got rid of our rego stickers now. But we still have to pay it, and just trust that the electronic system has recorded our payment. You get a receipt number to write on your renewal form and that's it. They've made an official government app for iPhone and Android which lets you check the expiry date on any vehicle from the registration number, to make up for the loss of stickers. Yes, but don't you get basic third party insurance with your rego there? IMHO that makes a lot of sense.
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Sept 26, 2012 11:02:45 GMT
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THEY will never bring in a system that collects less tax. It's Casino rules, the house always wins. The prediction for the future would mean the end of being able to use a tax exempt vehicles everyday, and not paying anything, and also reps and such doing ultra high mileage in low tax band vehicles whilst somebody with a, say, Rover V8 powered P6 etc who does 1000 miles a year paying top whack of £210 pa. That would mean, IN THEORY, the actual miles done would dictate the amount paid and not age, engine size or emissions so I reckon it could drag in even more money for the goverment. One trip to Spain in a tax exempt Land Rover van towing a car transporter and returning with a CJ3 Jeep on the trailer cost me £300 in French tolls. In the UK it would have cost me nothing for the same mileage on motorways. Which option do you think the UK governement would prefer as they are only interested in money A couple of years ago there was a expose about goverment treatment of congestion reducing schemes submitted by various councils. I can't remember the exact figures but something like 35 were submitted and just 7 accepted / given the go-ahead. Turns out the government take into account the people using the public transport of any such scheme and how much they would loose in lost revenue from lower fuel sales, insurance tax, road fund licence etc of the such people not using their cars paul H
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dgo
Part of things
Posts: 41
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Sept 26, 2012 12:54:33 GMT
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Wasn't this proposed back in the 70's or 80's to put a few pence on a gallon (remember those) and scrap tax discs? If I recall there was a lot of press that the addition on fuel would bring in a £1 gallon!
Well guess what: - they kept the tax - they've increased it a lot in price and complexity - they've doubled it for new cars in the first year - petrol is now more than £6 per gallon
Just watch for increased fuel prices,more tax and black boxes......
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Sept 26, 2012 13:03:29 GMT
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Sept 26, 2012 13:03:56 GMT
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Wasn't this proposed back in the 70's or 80's to put a few pence on a gallon (remember those) and scrap tax discs? If I recall there was a lot of press that the addition on fuel would bring in a £1 gallon! £1 in 1980 is equivalent to £4.80 now...
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Sept 26, 2012 13:11:47 GMT
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Well, in South Australia they've got rid of our rego stickers now. But we still have to pay it, and just trust that the electronic system has recorded our payment. You get a receipt number to write on your renewal form and that's it. They've made an official government app for iPhone and Android which lets you check the expiry date on any vehicle from the registration number, to make up for the loss of stickers. Yes, but don't you get basic third party insurance with your rego there? IMHO that makes a lot of sense. Yes, third party insurance (personal injury only, not property) is included in SA rego and is priced according to the address where the car is garaged. So, it doesn't matter how old the driver is or how many crashes they have, but if you live out in the country you save about $100 a year on rego costs due to lower accident risk. Most of the eastern states have to organise their own insurance though. For reference, my rego including third party is about $340 per year on a motorbike, about $700 per year on a four cylinder car and I think roughly $800 on a six cylinder. There is no accounting for weight/size/power/capacity of vehicles, just the number of cylinders. Owners of huge four-wheel drives with four cylinder diesels in them benefit greatly from this!
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fred
Posted a lot
WTF has happened to all the Vennies?
Posts: 2,957
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Sept 27, 2012 6:24:01 GMT
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Double edged sword I guess, Like fags, government keeps banging on about you giving those up, but they get billions in tax from said smokers, black boxes, be hacked within weeks, and would cost a hell of a lot more to install make, network, blah blah than they would ever make
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'79 Cossie ran Cortina - Sold
2000 Fozzer 2.0 turbo snow beast
'85 Opel Manta GSI - Sold
03 A class Mercedes
Looking for a FD Ventora - Anyone?
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Sept 27, 2012 8:34:44 GMT
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Rather than black boxes another idea could be toll's on motorways. In France the toll motorways you get a card when entering and put it into a machine when exiting. The charge is calculated by the miles you have done - no black box. I have absolutley no idea of the mileage done by people on motorways but lets say road fund licence is £210 which is £4 per week. The M6 toll is between £3.61 and £5.50 for a car depending on day, time and whether you have pre payment etc. A person who uses the toll every day to go to work therefore pays at least £18 per week which is substancially more than they pay for road tax. Now impliment toll for ALL motorways and the amount of revenue it COULD generate is massive compared to that of the road fund licence fee paid by the same cars at present. Just a metal exercise but might be the thinking behind the concept. Per Wiki -"In France, the vignette was abolished for private vehicles in 2001 and was replaced by a tax on toll road operators[2] at a rate of 6.85 uer per 1000 km travelled. In addition a tax is levied on vehicles registered to companies. Since 2006 the tax is levied according to CO2 emissions ranging from 2 euros per gramme to 19 euros per gramme." I assume therefore private vehicles don't pay anything whereas company vechicle are charged based on emissions.
Paul H
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Sept 27, 2012 9:26:11 GMT
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Sounds like all good stuff to me, and actually makes sense. Yes of course we will never trust what the government have up their sleeves, but look at it from an income point of view with all these dreadful modern electric cars becoming mainstream, all VED exempt. In 15-20 years it will cause a huge hole in the budget. Like it or not, the government do need to do something about that. These are just ideas and consultations that will come to fruition in two or three governments time. It won't happen overnight.
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There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,789
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Sept 27, 2012 11:46:04 GMT
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We all know that the fairest way of pricing roads is a levy on fuel, but The Man will never do that. Mostly due to the jobs that will be lost for the momkeys at Doovla
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Sept 27, 2012 12:30:56 GMT
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The black box idea is fecking stupid ! how many would be needed ? who makes em, tech backup? christ me phone network still plays up and how long they been about?? i can see some old granny who goes to the PO once a fortnight getting charged for some foreign lorry drivers trip from kent to wales and back or will foreign lorry drivers as usuall get away with it like everything fooking else they do over here. The gov comes out with some right plums but black boxes in every car in the country is by far the biggest load i've ever heard TBH
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R.I.P photobucket
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