GJM
Posted a lot
Alloy engines; like communism- great in theory.
Posts: 1,393
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Nov 27, 2006 20:24:25 GMT
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Whats involved in converting your Diesel (if anything?) Pros and Cons for the car? What oil do you use and where to get it from? Possible future costs? etc etc etc Slammed Ovlov 240 Saloon Diesel on chip fat FTW! /Discuss  |
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Nov 27, 2006 20:34:08 GMT
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older cars tend to run better on it! i ran my old series2a landrover all the time on it but aldi staff asked me a couple of times what i was doing with 25ltrs of cookin oil LOL every other day the newist weve tried was a 52 reg golf tdi seemed ok i ve heard storys about busted pumps and the like but hey id run a ovolov on it andy
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Nov 27, 2006 20:41:22 GMT
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Last Edit: Nov 27, 2006 20:42:28 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 27, 2006 20:51:43 GMT
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My wifes father ran his focus on it for around 3 years and did over 100,000 mile on it. His was had a conversion so it would start on diesel and run it that way until the engine was warm then he would change it over to veg oil. He would swap it over to diesel a few minutes before switching off so that the veg oil was flushed out of the system when it was knocked off to make starting easier. You could start it on veg oil in the summer but no chance in th ewinter as the oil is too thick. He had a preheater for the veg oil as well to help thin it slightly. He had a second small tank in the boot for diesel and the main tank was filled with veg oil. The pump died at 90,000 mile and cost 800 pound for a recon pump fitted at a ford dealer. Difficult to say for certain but pretty sure the veg oil did reduce its life. He used to get veg oil from my local chippy and filter it twice before using it. Then the tax was something like 30p/litre that he had to pay to HM Customs, not all was declared though. I used to run a 30% mix of veg oil and diesel in my pajero and never had a problem summer and winter. You are supposed to be able to get away with a 50/50 mix in the summer without a problem but never tried it myself. Most modern common rail diesels don't like it as it is too thick for the injectors unless you want to distill it to produce bio-diesel but then thats taking things a bit far for home use. Bosch pumps are supposed to be a lot better at coping with it than other ones. I did tell a lad at work about running diesels on veg oil, so he decided to go and by some. He bought 10 litres from the local corner shop. But before putting it in the van he put 30 litres of diesel in, then he realised he was paying 92p/litre for the diesel but had just spent £1.07/litre for the veg oil ;D ;D The muppet ;D  |
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Last Edit: Nov 27, 2006 20:52:09 GMT by PhoenixC
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Nov 27, 2006 20:57:32 GMT
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I know there's a 110 Land-Rover that I often see/smell around Malvern......
Damn thing makes me hungry every time.....teeheehee
Brian
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Nov 27, 2006 21:03:04 GMT
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As long as it's not a 'common rail' type diesel you should be OK. But be aware that the veg oil 'waxes' at a higher temp than diesel... which means that early am starting in winter could cause gunking.... I believe the system PheonixC is describing would counteract that. One of the reasons we bought our Focus (with the older type diesel) was that we could run it on veg oil 'come the revolution' - haven't tried it yet mind , as my company mileage allowance basically covers all the fuel we use at the mo... |
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Nov 27, 2006 21:12:46 GMT
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Back in the days before they treated diesel to stop it waxing in winter, wagon drivers of old used to dump a gallon of petrol in with the diesel...dunno if it would work with veg oil.....
Brian
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GJM
Posted a lot
Alloy engines; like communism- great in theory.
Posts: 1,393
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Nov 27, 2006 21:13:40 GMT
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Cool. So briefly scanning over some of thoes websites: You can run a Diesel on 100% clean veg oil (rapeseed from the shops for ease). Only problem being cold starting, whereby you fit a fuel heater on the fuel lines to solve this. Oh and keep changing the filters. Am i also right in saying some people run their Diesel compleatly unmodified but with a small amount of Diesel in their Oil to cut down on the solidification a bit? *Idiots bit- So am i right in saying the mpg of your car should stay the same? Its just the cost of your fuel that your cutting down on?  |
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Nov 27, 2006 21:13:55 GMT
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Could be interesting! ;D
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Nov 27, 2006 21:23:51 GMT
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i say whack petrol in it any way, thats cheaper than diesal..... I'm well tempted to try this on my daily hack, i didnt realise you could litterally pour veg oil strait in!!! i some how think that if i started buying about 45litres of rape seed oil a week i might get some odd looks in tesco!
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Nov 27, 2006 21:28:49 GMT
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Some cars already have fuel heaters (ie Pug/Cit older diesels). Modern common rail engines use too high a pressure so sticking extra-gooey veg oil in isn't recommended.
Best thing to do is test it. Buy a bottle of veg oil, disconnect the fuel line to the fuel pump and plug it straight in. If the engine doesn't like it, better to find out now rather than when you've just poured a few gallons into the fuel tank!
Don't forget that to be legal, you should pay the fuel duty like a good boy. They don't need to know how many miles you are doing though!
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org |
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Nov 27, 2006 21:45:01 GMT
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Cool. So briefly scanning over some of thoes websites: You can run a Diesel on 100% clean veg oil (rapeseed from the shops for ease). Only problem being cold starting, whereby you fit a fuel heater on the fuel lines to solve this. Oh and keep changing the filters. The fuel would have to be heated up in the pump as well if you were running it on 100% veg oil so its not practical to do that. Running it on diesel for five minutes on start up and cool down is all you need to do to run it 100% veg oil the rest of the time. Am I also right in saying some people run their Diesel compleatly unmodified but with a small amount of Diesel in their Oil to cut down on the solidification a bit? A 50/50 mix is possible in the summer months without any issues. In the winter anything more than 30% veg oil 70% diesel and it will struggle to start depending on how cold it is. *Idiots bit- So am I right in saying the mpg of your car should stay the same? Its just the cost of your fuel that your cutting down on? MPG will be the same and they actually run slightly quieter. Some cars already have fuel heaters (ie Pug/Cit older diesels). They do have them but its still recommended to run a separate preheater as well as this one. The preheters are normally run from a coiled pipe from the collant system around the fuel pipe. |
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Nov 27, 2006 21:48:20 GMT
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what about performance? will it be effected? I'm sure that the diesal from the jet garage up the road makes the 306 go better, and if this is true then surly some veg oil is going to slow me down?
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Nov 27, 2006 21:52:47 GMT
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If you were taking it around a track you may notice a difference, but in the cars I have run it, mainly 4x4`s , and a 30% mix there has been no noticeable difference even when towing.
My father in law always said it seemed to run better on veg oil
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Nov 27, 2006 21:53:43 GMT
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Veg oil shouldn't hinder performance at all AFAIK.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,962
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Nov 27, 2006 23:08:05 GMT
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I did tell a lad at work about running diesels on veg oil, so he decided to go and by some. He bought 10 litres from the local corner shop. But before putting it in the van he put 30 litres of diesel in, then he realised he was paying 92p/litre for the diesel but had just spent £1.07/litre for the veg oil ;D ;D The muppet ;D Stop it my keyboard has only just recovered from coffee splutage now it has Gin and Martini all over it!!!! |
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Nov 27, 2006 23:12:37 GMT
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I did tell a lad at work about running diesels on veg oil, so he decided to go and by some. He bought 10 litres from the local corner shop. But before putting it in the van he put 30 litres of diesel in, then he realised he was paying 92p/litre for the diesel but had just spent £1.07/litre for the veg oil ;D ;D The muppet ;D Stop it my keyboard has only just recovered from coffee splutage now it has Gin and Martini all over it!!!! Gin & Martini, don't think I`ve ever tried those two together. Do you think that would work instead of veg oil  |
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,962
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Nov 27, 2006 23:21:57 GMT
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Stop it my keyboard has only just recovered from coffee splutage now it has Gin and Martini all over it!!!! Gin & Martini, don't think I`ve ever tried those two together. You've missed summut then ;D Only thing that keeps me sane - I am obviously close to being an alcoholic but I only drink after 5pm So a morning pick me up at 7am is fine [Do you think that would work instead of veg oil Probably not but it's a lot easier to drink |
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you might as well use red diesel, its much less hassle, usually cheaper, and if you get caught you'll get charged with the same offence, which is avioding fuel tax.
whatever you use as fuel, as soon as you USE it as fuel it becomes liable for fuel tax, so as soon a s copper smells your car (they smell like chip shops) and pulls you over you better have some proof you paid fule tax at tesco when you bought you veg oil.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Nov 28, 2006 11:08:13 GMT
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OK, BioDiesel should run in any diesel vehicle. It is a clean conversion, and continental derv includes a percentage of bio diesel for eco reasons. Even modern engines can run that. A lot of older turbo diesels can run straight (in the tank) veg mixes with dinodiesel. The Pajero/Delica guys so 50/50 in the summer, and 30% veg in the winter because of the solidification problems. They reckon the cars run quieter too because the extra lubrication from the oil. Other cars use twin tank/heater/switching and run neat veg rather than mixed derv/veg. I've heard of adding a percentage of white spirit to neat new veg oil to keep downs down some of the solidification problems. Don't know the quanities though. in regards to duty. Different rates apply to clean new veg oil, filtered used oil, and converted biodiesel. you need to apply to the Customs and Excise and get the forms for self declaring duty. You pay the duty monthly, based on oil used, not bought. So you pay in arrears, not in advance like at the pump. You send the reciepts as proof for the "fuel used" along with the completed form and a cheque. Best thing is, keep the months form in the car until you send it, so that if Mr plod stops you for smelling like Mr chippy, you can show him you are complying with the law by paying the duty when due. if you do proper BioDiesel conversion, you might find that you get random spot checks to make sure that you aren't breaching any rules regarding paying tax. Remember, if you do enough and you plan to convert oil to biodiesel, a lot of chippies pay for people to remove their waste oil. If you can find a suitable tank on a trailer and spend one evening a week collecting, you might find that apart from the duty, people may actually end up paying you to drive your car. And remember, make enough of it and you could end up like BioWillie. Yes. Willie Nelson does brew his own BioDiesel to run his Diesel Cadillac. Oh and a couple of the goatfuels guys have apparently run a twin tank system with heater to run their car on Lard. |
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