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May 24, 2012 20:03:55 GMT
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www.the-ace.org.uk/ . The latest page gives an up to date position whilst we wait on replies from various Governement and trade associations and finish analysing the Impact Assessment Documents that formed the basis for this decision.
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May 24, 2012 22:11:48 GMT
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Last Edit: May 24, 2012 22:27:20 GMT by Soopahfly
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May 24, 2012 22:19:25 GMT
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Last Edit: May 24, 2012 22:24:07 GMT by kapri
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May 24, 2012 22:27:10 GMT
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Strange, showed up here....
Edited anyway.
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Last Edit: May 24, 2012 22:27:34 GMT by Soopahfly
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May 27, 2012 11:37:18 GMT
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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May 27, 2012 12:20:03 GMT
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Has there been any clarity on whether or not number plates on vehicles expempted from MOTs by this move will be subject to the existing ban on transferring from MOT exempt vehicles.
I'm hoping for a firesale of valuable number plates before August when people realise it's their last chance to make a few quid out of them.
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May 27, 2012 12:59:56 GMT
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So from November, if I was to import a pre '60 car, the only contact from the DVLA would be an inspection on the VIN number for registration purposes? So a heavily modified Lowrider (just as a random example ) could just come in and be put on UK roads as easy as that? No doubt it will come out in the small print nearer the time. A mate has a knackered '58 Morris Minor. It looks tidy enough, but is hanging underheath. He always manages to cobble it together enough for the annual inspection. The thing is enough of a danger on the roads as it is... I dread to think of the state it will be in in 3 years time...
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There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes
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May 27, 2012 16:04:44 GMT
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Has there been any clarity on whether or not number plates on vehicles expempted from MOTs by this move will be subject to the existing ban on transferring from MOT exempt vehicles. I'm hoping for a firesale of valuable number plates before August when people realise it's their last chance to make a few quid out of them. That's the thing that most have missed. We are awaiting official replies from various involved Governemnt agencies and trad associations, soon as we get answers thye'll b eup on teh site :tup:
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May 27, 2012 20:29:34 GMT
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*prepares for it to get mega toasty, and buys 3 flame suits of ebay*
i fail to see any problems with this for existing cars already currently roadworthy, IE: mot'd and will be on the computer data base as mot'd.
i do think that all "new" pre 1960 vehicles that will be imported or restored/put back on the road or whatever, SHOULD be subject to an MOT test.
(note to self. order more fire suits) i also think rolling free tax should start rolling again, and I'm NOT interested in ACE speaking for me because they are frightened/scaremongering of new restrictions that the government will try to impose on the "historic" tax band.
IF they were to impose restrictions on the "historic" tax band, its because of the EU, which the UK is part of, so they will be imposed whether peeps agree or not, and not wanting to have mot exempt vehicles and restarting free tax for fear of future rules is futile.
perhaps its me, but i see no problem with number plates, i see a problem with ringing, but not transferring of number plates, transferring a number plate from a pre 60 car, isn't going to give your range rover "mot exempt status" when transferred via the dvla?
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May 27, 2012 21:18:54 GMT
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I suspect that "new" applications for tax on a pre-60 will need a MoT - this is the case with commercials at the moment. Plenty of people I know with old commercials keep them insured and taxed even though they haven't moved in years because it's easier than getting a ministry test done on a 1946 AEC Mammoth...
Rolling "free tax" is another subject. I also don't agree that it inevitably leads to restrictions. and do think the '73 cutoff has created an artificial halo effect in respect to some 70's models. I can't see it reinstated any time soon due to the enviromental/economic concerns though.
I didn't miss the registration problem - that again is already a current rule - no transfers from a MoT exempt class. I'd like to think that the option to transfer remains available if the voluntary MoT test is taken, but this is DVLA, so wait and see.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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thanks scary
i see the registration problem, i didn't already know there was an mot exempt class, and i suppose some people will have log books for cars that are long gone, so a voluntary MOT would sift those out. it would also stop dealers who import cars (pre A reg/1964) selling the registration given to them upon import/1st registration and being issued with another number plate albeit one that cant be transferred
although i still fail to see restrictions with the free car tax band, next they be offering free insurance and free petrol and some people will still want to reject it for something that MAY happen in the future
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Hannibal Lechter always offered you a meal first To our way of thinking the end of customising will come about by 'death by a 1000 cuts' , slowly but surely . There will be NO " You cannot customise" legislation, they tried that once back in 1976 ( proof still available ) and that is what created lobbying to get SVA . They are already starting at the other end , putting systems into modern cars that do not allow for modifications . In 10 years time there will be a shortage of cheap available vehicles as technology overload means vehicles scrapped due to cost of repairs much earlier and what is left cannot be modified. It's fully appreciated that many believe it won't happen and aren't worried about the future . Just that being an old geezer , I've been there done that and am now living in what was my future and it's certainly not how imagined it.
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,331
Club RR Member Number: 167
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MOT exemption FACTS.spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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May 28, 2012 13:07:33 GMT
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>In 10 years time there will be a shortage of cheap available vehicles as technology overload means vehicles scrapped due to cost of repairs much earlier and what is left cannot be modified.
why do you post stuff like this ? it has no basis in fact and is just a scaremongering opinion.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,932
Club RR Member Number: 174
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MOT exemption FACTS.stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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May 28, 2012 13:41:48 GMT
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Have you seen the repair bills for modern cars? I've just had dealings in getting a 58 (80k miles) Saab 9-5 repaired as it broke after I fitted a hands free kit to it. Initial thoughts were a sticking ignition switch causing the starter to burn out (switch didn't self return to on from start) so the switch and starter were changed (£281 switch, £200 starter). The car then started and the DMF was rattling so shut straight off, at £1100 to replace. That was fixed, started up and it was rattling but quieter. Thought gearbox but then the starter started pouring smoke. Changed the starter again-same rattling, turned hands free kit off rattling stopped. Turns out the hands free was interfering with the Canbus signals and causing the starter solenoid to flick over with the engine running. Now imagine trying to get a major modification past he canbus system, you have to add resistors so you can swap to LED bulbs ffs.
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May 28, 2012 14:37:02 GMT
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>In 10 years time there will be a shortage of cheap available vehicles as technology overload means vehicles scrapped due to cost of repairs much earlier and what is left cannot be modified. why do you post stuff like this ? it has no basis in fact and is just a scaremongering opinion. Already happening means it isn't scaremongering ! Mate weighed in a 9 year old Peugeot small car ( no idea on modern stuff ) in due to sidelights coming on and off by themselves, new switch plus recoding at main dealer £900 for a car worth £1500 tops. 2 11 year basic Mercs through local breakers due to ECU failures. Old car light front end , wing ,slam panel ,rad and number plate ,back on the road. Newer car same scenario = plus new dash, airbags , seat belt pretensioners =write off. New cars are simply not going to get as old as they currently do . All cars olsd now have to have tyre pressure monitoring systems, depending on how they are fitted may mean no wheels to fit other than factory spec . Likewise ESC ( Emergency Stability Control ) mandatorily coming to every new car sold .
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May 28, 2012 14:55:02 GMT
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it would also stop dealers who import cars (pre A reg/1964) selling the registration given to them upon import/1st registration and being issued with another number plate albeit one that cant be transferred I thought all pre-suffix imports were given non-transferable plates from the off now. Same with pre-suffix re-registrations. Is this not the case? Just curious. The registration sale thing is one I didn't know about and now opens up an interesting angle... Meaning it tightens the DVLA's ability to provide "private" plates if plate-raping old cars is now no longer possible... ££££
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 28, 2012 15:28:18 GMT
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They are already starting at the other end , putting systems into modern cars that do not allow for modifications . In 10 years time there will be a shortage of cheap available vehicles as technology overload means vehicles scrapped due to cost of repairs much earlier and what is left cannot be modified. Sorry chief, I usually support the ACE view but your last couple of posts on this have strayed well into scaremongering territory. Your comments about technology overload are not supported by fact and the evidence out there suggests that the motor trade will find a way to support modern cars as they grow old. I don't think I'm the only one pleasantly surprised to find that late 90s tech-behemoths like S Class Benzes or Audi A8s are enjoying a long life being supported by normal garages and even well skilled owners. True, new Saabs are both expensive to fix and generally quite troublesome but I'm surprised that's surprising to anyone. I imagine there was similar hair pulling when, for example, the early Benzes with Comand or Beemers with iDrive first started to need aftermarket support. The cost of car parts generally either drop off as the model ages or a non-OEM option becomes available to keep the cost of repair down. There are exceptions to this, of course, and there will always be individual components that can effectively write off a car if they fail. 2 11 year basic Mercs through local breakers due to ECU failures. My experience of this sort of thing is with Benzes and the Comand computer system and it's gone quickly from nervous distrust to just accepting that it might break but it'll be fixable. It's widely known that the best source for support on Comand is an aftermarket mob and lots of dealers refer owners to them for support of the Comand/ICE/Bluetooth/Sat Nav. That system took about ten years to go from being razor-sharp-cutting edge to common or garden and totally supportable.
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May 28, 2012 16:38:39 GMT
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yeah, I remember reading how OBD-II standard/compliance was going to kill modifying cars back in the late 80s or early 90s whenever they started the mandatory process for that. I think the idea of cheap, easy to fix cars which are cheap to buy too, that ship has sailed. The price of parts on specific vehicles will render some models or makes almost extinct, like, when did you last see a Chrysler Neon? But the number of Almeras of a similar age seems untouched by the passing of time... My concern is that some cars have pockets of expertise in forums or clubs who are the guy who can supply you a refreshed LCD display or a non-fritzing ECU but when this guy gives that up / moves onto another marque / whatever does someone else know how to do it? I dunno, and to be honest, all that modern stuff can get fragged for all I care. That said, may have a new job coming up where I *need* (their words not mine) a modern so a 8 or 9 year old Merc may be the job. But as a disposable modern not as something I'd want to make a modified ride out of.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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May 28, 2012 16:45:49 GMT
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Turns out the hands free was interfering with the Canbus signals and causing the starter solenoid to flick over with the engine running. Now imagine trying to get a major modification past he canbus system, you have to add resistors so you can swap to LED bulbs ffs. So it's not that it's impossible, it's that a different set of skills are needed. CANBus protocol isn't a mystery, and it's easy enough to keep circuits isolated. I was just reading a thread about an L300 where the owner's making these PIC boards for things like Glowplug control - and that's a basic thing - there is fundamentally no reason why system-on-chip computers can't be integrated into a CANBus car for these modifications. I agree that these things are a bloody nuisance, but that's just progress regardless, not really anything to do with legislation. There'll be off the shelf bits for them that can't, and it's no harder than sophisticated ICE or carputers for them that can. Hell, I can't weld, but I can solder. Maybe I'll have something neat to do in the future (Just as examples, my old R129 SL wasn't CANBus or anything else, but it was thoroughly mucked up by someone fitting a hands free kit and GPS speed-trap detector + Blaupunkt navigation head unit - I removed as much wiring from that rats nest as I did on the entire wiring loom of a Citroën CX. Scotchlock connectors everywhere, along with broken trim clips. And for the flipside, I was able to do a lot of 'modifying' of the behaviour of my Citroën C6 thanks to CANBus and the RT4 headunit, plus some scripts a forum user had written (and crucially, documented) - I am sure car hacking will just grow in popularity as the systems fall out of the dealer network and into enthusiasts' hands, with Wiki documentation and a tech-savvy generation understanding firmware differences and so forth).
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Last Edit: May 28, 2012 16:50:20 GMT by Deleted
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May 28, 2012 17:08:51 GMT
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At Ace we don't just consider what we have now but also about preserving the right to modify along with the actual ability. Our concern re new technology is nothing new. This is from jan 2009 www.the-ace.org.uk/i-was-in-the-back-making-coffee/Car being supported by aftermarket and independents , yip fully agree . But did you see that manufacturers were trying not to continue the block Exemption which meant they HAD to give that info to garages ? It took another campaign to ensure that info was made readily available still. July 2008 www.the-ace.org.uk/right-to-repair/ jan 2010 update www.the-ace.org.uk/update-right-to-repair/So who cars about independents , we'll still fix our own cars right ? So th parts will come from where ...aftermarket or main dealer? Aftermarket of course , no one will pay main dealer prices surely ? Why would there still be be aftermarket if there are fewer and fewer indepedents to sell to ? It's aboout looking at the possible knock on effects. It doesn't mean they will happen, but considering doesn't mean it is scaremongering. Scaremongering is "petrol is going to be £100 a gallon tomorrow" , with no facts to back it up. Logical progression based on existing facts and current proposals and viewing the future based on that is just being aware .
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