Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Urgent Advice requiredNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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May 16, 2012 17:53:55 GMT
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Sorry about this but I was wondering if someone could offer some advice.
Ive just sold my old MG Midget, guy travelled by train from down south to collect and left about 2 hours ago.
Here is where the kicker comes in, Ive just had a rather rude call to say "Ive broken down, car wont start. Come and tow me back I want a refund". Ive kept calm and asked the basics (Spark etc) to which he says "I have no Tools"
Now Common sense comes into account here, I ALWAYS take tools etc when collecting a Car so thats not my fault. The guy does not seem to want to check anything over the phone.
However this business of a Refund, the Car was sold on Ebay as seen, nobody can cover every eventually in terms of a breakdown and It was sold as seen.
Where do I stand?
Cheers in advance.
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,391
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May 16, 2012 17:59:52 GMT
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I'd say that as long as you haven't hidden any faults that might lead to the brake down you should be okay. That's my gut feeling, however I'm norwegian and not familiar with UK consumer laws.
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Last Edit: May 16, 2012 18:00:35 GMT by sonus
Current 1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype 2004 TVR T350C 2017 BMW 340i
Previous BMW 325d E91LCI - sold Alfa Romeo GTV - sold Citroen AX GT - at the breakers Ford Puma 1.7 - sold Volvo V50 2.0d - sold MGB GT - wrecked by fire MG ZT 1.8T - sold VW E-golf Electric - sold Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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May 16, 2012 18:06:41 GMT
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Shouldn't imagine they'd be any come back on a private sale, buyer beware etc. When I sell a car, I usually write 'sold as seen' or similar on the receipt given to the buyer, and my copy.Hope you don't get too much hassle.
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awoo
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,506
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May 16, 2012 18:07:58 GMT
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tell him to call the rac and get them to tow him home.
if you wrote out a receipt and he has taken it and long gone thats that. he checked the car over or he didnt, thats his fault if he didnt... so you held your part of the deal and the deal was done.
sounds like he probably got a touch of buyers remorse on the way back or an angry phone call from his wife about another car and is taking his chances with you.
besides if he cant be bothered to even look at it why should you bother to drive out at your expense and tow him home then give a refund?
leave him to it, since he was rude to you.
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May 16, 2012 18:11:24 GMT
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I'd say it's his problem...as you say it's a private sale and there's no comeback. As for towing him back I'd tell him to jog on, especially if he's 2 hours away! If he doesn't have breakdown cover then he's a fool....
However it's easy to say that when it's not me...in practice I may offer a refund if he gets the car back to me (depends if you think he will cause trouble...)
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May 16, 2012 18:12:42 GMT
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If i go and buy a car i always make sure i have breakdown cover.I wouldnt worrie about it, its his car not yours.
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Peace,Max signature height = 80px
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Urgent Advice requiredNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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May 16, 2012 18:13:20 GMT
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Yeah this was my thinking, I always do the receipt of sale etc, but you know how things change with the law. He spent nearly an hour checking it over etc, and was over the moon when he drove off. The fact he was not wanting to check things out is odd like you say. Tried to help with the basics but if someone does not bring any tools I think its a bit silly. To tow him back would cost me a bit yeah as the only motor I have here at the moment is the 2.8 Capri . Cheers guys, I can now go and enjoy the local car meet. Nathan.
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May 16, 2012 18:23:14 GMT
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Yep, don't worry about it.
Its part and parcel of used cars. I had someone ring me 30 mins after they'd bought a car asking for a refund. They'd turned the line-lock on, done a series of burnouts, been boxed in by several police cars and the reason he wanted a refund was 'the exhaust box has not for road use' stamped on it and the police arent happy.
I'm sure it wasnt your driving that caused them to box you in!
(I clearly stated the exhaust was not for road use and the other spare exhaust needed fitting!)
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Urgent Advice requiredNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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May 16, 2012 18:25:35 GMT
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^ Cheers Mate
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May 16, 2012 18:42:16 GMT
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When this has come up before, it's been said that "sold as seen" is meaningless. Have a look here; this seems to support that. He would have a comeback if the car isn't as described, but I think he'd have to be able to prove that you knew there was a problem with the car and didn't disclose or describe it.
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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Stu
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,913
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May 16, 2012 19:15:58 GMT
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Oh, bad luck - I know how you feel. This happened to me a while ago, sold a car to a chap, he inspected it, paid up after haggling a bit, even brought a mate to inspect it... ...anyway, he phoned about 10 mins after leaving to say he was in a town about 15 miles away (must have driven very quickly I thought, though it was a quick car) and had broken down with steam coming out of the car and suspected head gasket failure. He angrily claimed it was all my fault, I'd rigged the car to do this, he wanted me to pay to fix it / refund the sale / have the car back / meet up with him etc. etc. I was shocked as it had never happened to me before and the car was sold in good faith and perfectly reliable in my ownership. To cut a long story short, the phone calls went on for a few days, with more and more rudeness, claims that a garage had diagnosed the need for a new cylinder head, alleged trips to citizens advice and all kinds. It was very stressful. I luckily had access to contact a couple of people in the legal business who reliably informed me of what I already knew really, it was his problem and not mine as the car was a private sale. I told him as such and made it clear that future correspondence could be in writing via my solicitor, and that was an end to it. Never heard from him again. To be honest, I am 99% sure that the car didn't actually break down and he'd just bought a car he knew he could never afford to run and was looking for at least part of the sale price back to help. Sadly, there are people like that out there That turned into a bit of an essay! Best of luck with it anyway, stick to your guns and be civil but don't agree to any come backs - buyer beware and all that.
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Last Edit: May 16, 2012 19:16:31 GMT by Stu
'89 BMW E30 325i Sport, '04 MINI Cooper S, '09 Volvo V70 D5
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,649
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Urgent Advice requiredNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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May 16, 2012 19:54:52 GMT
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^ Thanks mate, its what I expected.
He seemed to forget that I collected him from the Train station which is a good 40 mins each way from mine. I've heard from him stating that the breakdown people go him going but he's going to stay over somewhere and get a garage to look at it tomorrow. With this I'm guessing I'm going to get the same sort of thing as you did.
Sold a few motors with no issues so I suppose my card was going to be delt at some point.
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May 16, 2012 20:02:32 GMT
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Here's where you MIGHT have a problem: On the advert for the car it says you're an 'experienced classic MG restorer of over 10 years' so (and bear with me here) the buyer may well have been one of those that just skim reads adverts, saw a nice looking car, read the bit about ten years of experience and assumed he was getting a good as brand new or perfect car. There really are people like that out there unfortunately. Now anyone with a brain would have recovery cover and would then ask the driver to diagnose the problem, which could be something really simple, or get it to a garage in the morning for a diagnosis.
I also noted you said in the advert 'Quite a few of you are asking if the car has been resprayed, the answer is yes by the previous owner' yet on your own blog it says 'Strickly speaking the Midget was completed on the bank holiday weekend but me being a numpty (I know its hard to believe) and colour sanded a little too much, and yes I burnt through to the primer, so last weekend I had to repsray the whole wing Ahh well its done now
Small, seemingly pointless, erm, point, but to a suspicious mind it doesn't add up and if the buyer spots that it could make you look like a liar or something. I am NOT replying here to have a go at you I hasten to add, and would agree with Rich606's comments, but often on the net the usual response is 'tell him to shove it/sold as seen/not your problem' and although he's undoubtably a bit dim just put yourself in his shoes for five minutes and ask yourself how you'd feel if your 'new' car conked out on you within an hour or so of owning it. Not everyone can just laugh it off or put it behind them easily. I will just repeat the buyer does sound like a melon and I'm not here to have a go at you.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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May 16, 2012 20:08:09 GMT
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This. Poor fella, but it's his risk buying a (40 year old) car... In fact, if you'd agree to take it back I'd take this as a sign (if I was that guy) that you knew about something wrong with it... In fact, that's what just happenedand that'swhy I'm goiung on a 300 mile trip tomorrow to get a replacement engine
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 861
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May 16, 2012 22:11:11 GMT
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A friend bought a Dolomite from a part time classic dealer a little while back, and I drove it home. Shut the engine off when we hit standing traffic on the motorway about 40 mins in and it wouldn't restart when the traffic started to move again. Instead of phoning the seller up in a huff we just shoved it over to the hard shoulder, did a few checks then phoned the RAC (which I am a member of, because I have a habit of owning classic british stuff and that is sensible). As it happens it was just fuel evaporation and once it had cooled down it was fine again- but even if it wasn't, minor breakdowns are all part and parcel of owning a classic car and if he can't cope with that he should be driving something like a Peugeot 206CC not an MG Midget.
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May 16, 2012 23:41:57 GMT
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minor breakdowns are all part and parcel of owning a classic car and if he can't cope with that he should be driving something like a Peugeot 206CC not an MG Midget. Yeah this ^^^ The chap buys an MG Midget through ebay, turns up with no tools or breakdown cover and gets upset when he's stranded, I'm afraid I'd struggle to take him seriously. I bought the A30 the same way, tax, MOT, no known (declared) issues but got it trailered because I didn't fancy the drive home in an unknown 55 year old car. Anyway I unloaded it and went for a little drive, how far did it get........... About a mile and a half ;D
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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I think I have told this tale on here before - the short version is that a while after selling a Defender, an angry chap was standing on my front doorstep with a kitchen knife. Fortunately, I was not at home, so he emailed me a photo of himself there with the knife. After police involvement, i never heard from him again.
"sold as seen" is pretty worthless, but as long as the car is described accurately, as long as no serious faults have been hidden (this is hard to prove either way) then you should be ok. It is always the BUYERS responsibility to check the car over to their satisfaction. If he checks it, pays and leaves then anything that follows is his problem. How do you know he was not bouncing it along at redline RPM in third gear or some other stupid or negligent action on his part caused the fault?
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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If he checks it, pays and leaves then anything that follows is his problem. How do you know he was not bouncing it along at redline RPM in third gear or some other stupid or negligent action on his part caused the fault? I had that with an old Honda I sold - it had just had a rebore and wanted running in, told the new buyer to take it steady for about 500miles and not let it rev out too much, had a phone call later that night cursing me and wanting a refund as it had broken down after they had ragged it down the dual carriageway and it nipped up.....
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You are a private seller? Not a trader? There is no warranty. Buyer beware. You are obliged under law to describe the car honestly in your advertising and that the car MUST be in a roadworthy condition when you hand it over.
If you say "an MG restorer with 10 years experience" in your ad it may make you look like a trader.
TBH when I bought the white Buick - From a garage - with a retail sales receipt - and it broke down on the way home, despite the fact that the car would be covered by a statutory warranty - I rang the AA and go home and sorted it myself.
I sold one car to a guy who went ape curse word on me. Some may remember the story as it was unfolded on here. He got proper nasty and as it was a cheap car and I dislike house fires I caved in
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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scruff
Part of things
Posts: 621
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Mate of mine sold a 2a landie he had tarted up, after a week the guy said it kept loosing power and was misbehaving and undrivable (Desprit driving it 40+ miles home!) and he needed his money back. My mate being a bit soft drove 40 miles to see him, turns out the chap kept getting 3rd instead of 1st! (standard new driver vs Landy gearbox stuff) Bit of negotiation later my mate buys it back off him for £200 less and sold it to the next highest bidder for the same price he origianlly sold it for... So an extra £200 up on the whole operation...! Lucky though!
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1994 Lotus Esprit - Fragile red turbo with pop up lights. 1980 Porsche 924 - Fragile red turbo with pop up lights.
I spy a trend...
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