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May 17, 2012 14:35:00 GMT
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I'll chuck some deodorant down it's throat later (when I find the cheap emergency can, I'm a tart...) and see what happens.
It's very annoying, considering it hasn't bloody moved, don't understand how they can be dead at all. But stuff it, ordered a set of Denso plugs.
I do remember testing for power at the coil's, which there was. Is there anyway to test a coil pack? If I can do that whilst I've got it all to bits, it'd be a good plan to eliminate those I feel.
I'm in Basingstoke (almost), so quite far from Aberdeen!
Ta.
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May 17, 2012 23:33:29 GMT
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I know you have probs thought of this already but here goes anyway ... My dad a few years ago had a daewoo espero (that'll be a daewoo lol), we had to do something with the fuel system that involved releasing the pressure from the injector rail! guess what, it wouldn't start .... similar symptoms as you have. Turns out it was an air lock in the fuel rail somewhere and we had to slack the fuel feed slightly while turning the engine till it started... when it did and all was tightened up again never caused a problem!! may not solve your problem but it may be worth a try i guess  |
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May 17, 2012 23:40:28 GMT
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Thanks Chompy, I'd already considered that. I'd dismissed it due to the plugs smelling of fuel, but it can't hurt I guess.
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May 19, 2012 16:19:46 GMT
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Ok, air lock is back on the table, chucked some carb cleaner into the ICV (which hasn't helped, it still buzzes) and chucked some down the inlet as well just to see what happened. It started and idled for about a second, then died. So, I need to work out how to get to the injectors, hindered by the fact that I can't get the bloody throttle body off and 95% of my tools are imperial.
This is going to be fun.
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May 19, 2012 18:35:58 GMT
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Was there not a tyre style valve on the fuel rail? would be one of the first efi's I've seen that hasn't got one but it's certainly not impossible I suppose.try shorting out the fuel pump relay to run continuously with the delivery pipe off and into a jar to clear any air in the system but if the airlocks at an injector it may take I bit longer to clear or miss for a bit.
Again,douse the airbox in deodorant/easy start after you've bled the lines and try again.
The good news is it's deffo a fuel issue as without spark even the lynx wouldn't have got it going.
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May 19, 2012 22:36:33 GMT
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From what I can see of the fuel rail, no, there isn't one. Though the inlet and throttle body won't come off, so I'm still not 100% There are two that I can see elsewhere, though they're not in anyway attached to the fuel system, they have H and L marked on them, I assume they're something to do with the 4wd system, ISTR it runs on air.
Will be having another look at it tomorrow or Monday. Weather dependent.
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May 19, 2012 22:47:58 GMT
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'H' and 'L' for aircon ?
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1965 Imp
1982 Golf GTi
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May 19, 2012 23:15:51 GMT
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...I didn't even know it had aircon. Seriously, this vehicle has barely moved at all.
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Re-checked fuel delivery after the filter, fine. Though I was told the fuel pump kicks in when you turn the ignition on, it only did it whilst cranking? Changed the apparently "dud" plugs, as suspected, no change.
Next thought was to try and get to the injectors to see what they're doing. Helpfully, there's three or four bolts at the back of the engine I can't get to, just like the starter motor, my hands don't physically fit in the space. So the manifold won't come off.
So, to re-cap. Power at the coils, fuel pump delivers fuel, it'll start and run for a second or two on carb cleaner, IAC is buzzing like mad, which I'm sure is a new noise and I can't get to the injectors.
Help? Please?
Edited to add; Even though it coughs and splutters on Carb Cleaner, hold #1 plug to earth and get someone to crank it, it doesn't spark. At all.
Replace the coil packs again then it seems?
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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Does the car have a immobilser?
Don't want to rub salt in the wounds but you could of had the pump changed under warranty by Kia as this is a recent safety recall. I've done a few.
Did the car run fine before you changed the pump?
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Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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Bolf
Part of things
Posts: 507 
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Had a similar sounding issue on a friends nissan last week , he'd mixed up the feed and return fuel lines back to front... Just worth a mention .
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Does the car have a immobilser? Don't want to rub salt in the wounds but you could of had the pump changed under warranty by Kia as this is a recent safety recall. I've done a few. Did the car run fine before you changed the pump? Was it? Even though this car is 14 or 15 years old? Yes, it does have an immobiliser, though from what I understand, wouldn't that stop power going to the coils and/or not let the fuel pump relay kick in? The car ran absolutely spot on before changing the pump, besides curse word fuel out everywhere. And I definitely 100% have not mixed the lines up, I ran a hose earlier from the fuel filter into a jar to see if the pump was actually supplying fuel, it is. Basically, my confusion comes from the plugs smelling of fuel, there is power to the coils. But when holding a plug against the block (I've tried every plug to be thorough), it doesn't spark, yet when carb cleaner is chucked down it, it coughs into life? Stupid dog eating pile of rubbish. |
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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The recall was for exactly what has happened to you, the plastic outlet crumbles away causing leaks. Either way you've done it now.manufacturacers will still recall vehicles if there is a safety related problem ie fuel leaking... For example vauxhall Agila with rotten fuel tanks.
The immobilser usually cuts the fuel pump your right. If you crank the engine can you hear it buzzing? Have you got 12 volts at the pump when cranking? Have you disturbed the wiring plug (pulled it causing breaks in the wiring)
If your spraying carb cleaner into the inlet and it's starting it suggests you have a spark or at least some kind of ignition.
Is the immobilser factory fit or after market? Ever had any problems before?
Have you checked all the fuses?
If it was me....
1. 100% ensure its the correct pump
2.check for a good ground at the pump without it running
3.check for a good power and ground at the pump when cranking
4.check fuel pressure upto the fuel rail (it should prime the rail at least with the key on)
Then if all that's good focus on other things, but with jobs like this you have to look over what you've done. If it run fine before and all you've done is change the pump, then it would be a bad luck that something else failed ( although this can happen and put you in a world of hurt lol)
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Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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The outlet wasn't plastic, it was steel.
The fuel pump is pumping fuel. I've established that by running a hose into a clear bottle. It makes the noises a pump should make and it has about 2 gallons of fuel in it. The plugs also smell of fuel, but aren't drenched.
Factory fit immobiliser. The key fob is being a bit of a pain though and slow to open the doors, takes a couple of presses, going to change the battery in it. ISTR that if you opened it on the key and tried to start it, it'd point blank refuse to start (when working), so this seems a good idea.
The thing is I've tested for a spark with the coil packs held against the block and they don't spark at all? That's not right. I know that.
All the fuses and relays are fine, I've checked them already.
I'm 100% it's the correct pump, the first thing I did was put them side by side after being supplied the wrong one initially.
There is 12v at the pump when cranking.
I haven't got anything here that I can test the fuel pressure with, but I can't get to the fuel rail anyway as I physically can't reach the bolts, my hands don't fit on their own, let alone with a spanner or ratchet in hand.
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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The ones I've done and seen were plastic but let's forgot about that.
How many coil packs? Plug leads?
No spark at all whilst cranking holding the plug close to earth?
Any flashing lights on the dash? Does the em light show and go out whilst cranking?
1998? What size engine? I'll try and get a wiring diagram
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Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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The one that I got first as a replacement had a plastic outlet on the top and the plug for the loom was different. They changed pumps at around year 2000, still, made £50 on it when I sold it. But yes, irrelevant here!
2 pencil type coil packs, tested it off the loose leads and from the bottom of the packs themselves. No spark when held close to earth.
No flashing lights on the dash, what's the EM light?
1998, 2.0 DOHC engine.
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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Engine management light sorry.
Are there 4 wires at the plug for the pump? With the new (2nd replacement) you've not had to change any wiring?
Pencil coil packs like a rover 25 set up?
How many wires going into the coil pack?
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Last Edit: Jun 5, 2012 14:59:58 GMT by gruss
Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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Well, upon testing it today (To see if the light went out when cranking, would help if I knew which light it was), it started, lumpy as hell, ran with a foot lightly on the throttle for 5 seconds or so, then died, without putting anything down its throat.
So I'd suggest that can discount the fuel pump and the ignition?
Anyway, 4 wires at the pump, plus earth. I did have to change the plug at the end as the one on the new pump was damaged and yes, I did connect the correct wires together. I'm going to say it again though, this seems completely irrelevant because it pumps fuel to the engine. The pump is not the problem.
I have no idea what a Rover 25 setup looks like, one plug comes out of the bottom of each coil pack, with an HT lead connected into the side of it and onto the other two plugs.
I think there was two wires going into each pack, but can't remember.
I'm convinced it's the IAC, as it's now buzzing and I don't ever remember it doing that before.
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gruss
Part of things
Posts: 242
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How do you know it's not the fuel pump? Because you've fitted another...
You said you ran a separate pipe from the outlet into a container? What if there's a blockage in the system that is restricting pressure? Has some of the crumbled pipe gone into the system? You don't know and I don't....
You said it ran fine before so you need to focus on the fuel system.... Get a fuel pressure gauge and put that inline on the feed pipe and check it.
Take the IAC off and give it a good clean if in doubt.
If your not sure what a engine mangement light is then your going to be struggling...
If in doubt get it recovered into a local garage..
Good luck
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2012 17:26:36 GMT by gruss
Daihatsu Mira TR-XX
Suzuki Alto Works
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Because surely the fuel filter should have stopped that from happening?
Already cleaned the IAC, made sod all difference.
There's a difference between knowing which light it is and what it means. There's half a dozen bloody lights on this dashboard, I don't know which one it is, I'm sorry I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of what light is which for a Kia. Can't get it recovered and can't afford to buy anymore tools.
You can ignore this thread now, I've had enough.
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