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Hi guys,
Quick question for the MB heads.
Yesterday I took my 90,000 mile 1991 250D sedan for an MOT.
While I was there I started moaning to the MOT guy that it's hard to make a smooth take off, especially when the engine is cold and a it less controllable, there seems to be a lot of up/down drivetrain vibration / judder as you let the clutch up. (My old Diesel pick up used to this but it was excused because it was a pick up, it doesn't seem "right" for a Benz, lol).
Anyways we whipped the heat shield off and had a good look underneath, I was expecting the gearbox mount or the drive line do-nuts to be wasted but they seem to be OK (all I did was wiggle and twist by hand btw).
On the other hand the UJ in the middle of the prop made a metallic "click-click" noise when twisted and the rubber mount that holds it up in the middle seemed weak and tired. The prop is a 2 piece splined affair.
So questions:
1. I'm guessing play in the UJ (and floppy mount) means new prop shaft required? The UJ seemed to be an integral part.
2. Anywhere to get one other than MB, I guess it's going to cost me if I go there?
3. I'll do the rubber do-nuts and gearbox mount at the same time because I might as well so I'll be trying to source those too. Know any good MB aftermarket suppliers?
Thanks very much for reading.
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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As silly as it sounds I would try MB dealer anyway (for the rubber coupling). I know when I owned my Porsche 944, the dealers where on a number of occasions (not always I admit) cheaper than Euro Car Parts and so called 'specialists' (well, Porscheshop). I would not necessarily be looking for a new propshaft, but new UJs and the rubber coupling. To be fair, the UJs should be available from ECP for something half decent, or even ebay (I know for the Stag I found a good local supplier for GKN UJs via ebay). Otherwise I would be heading over to a propshaft specialist. Where in the country are you based? I've used Dave Mac Props (www.davemacpropshafts.com) with success on the Stag  . |
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Last Edit: May 5, 2012 22:31:31 GMT by ChasR
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fha772
Part of things
Posts: 247
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Try Reco-Prop ( www.reco-prop.com ), I've had quite a few props reconditioned by them, they've always been reasonable prices and a pretty quick turn around.  |
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Last Edit: May 5, 2012 18:59:19 GMT by fha772
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Thanks for the replies guys.
As it happens the ignition barrel suddenly stopped working this afternoon so it looks like the car needs to sit off the road a few days until one of those turns up.
Seeing as I'm quite close to reco-prop (I'm in Milton Keynes) it might well be worth giving them a call at the same time.
Thanks.
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Are you sure that it's not the daul mass flywheel playing up?
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Oooh would a 91 250D have a dual mass flywheel? I was hoping it was too old and too low spec for such technology!
I'll have a look and see what the symptoms of dual mass problems are.
Thanks,
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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The dual mass flywheel was used from september '89 on, except on the smal 2l engines. |
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DieselWiesel thanks very much, er, lucky me.
There's definitely a click click from the UJ when twisting the prop so I'll see if changing that and the center bearing improves things, and prepare myself for impending flywheel problems.
Are they as notorious on MB as they are on other makes? Most of the ones I've seen getting sworn at have come out of Vauxhalls.
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Hi! They can fail, but they don't have a particularily (spelling!?) bad reputation. You could change for a solid flywheel, but that would require to either chnage the input shaft in the gearbox fora non-DMF one, or chnage the gearbox. As - you guessed it - the input shaft is different (shorter for DMF). Is yours an auto or manual? The diesels with manual gearbox (no problem on autos) do have one problem: the so called 'Jig-Saw-Effect'. The engine & transmission mounts are too soft and the drive train twists, builds up and the 'jerking' occurs when taking off or chnaging gear. From '87 on a eletronically controlled pump was used to prevent that effect. These can play up too. But don't ask me how it works & where to find it or diagnose it... In german the system is called 'ARA'. That said; sort the prop first. This needs doing anyway. |
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DieselWiesel, thank you, it's an M/T.
Jig saw effect would be a spot on description. The last owner changed the 2 front engine mounts but not the gearbox one, hence I want to change it. As I said it's at it's worst first thing in the morning when the engine is cold.
It's not terrible it's just a mild annoyance on a car which is otherwise mechanically rather sound. There is also some evidence of "bodgery" around the pump, little broken levers and the like fixed with tie wrap assemblies, I wonder if some of that relates to the ARA system. You have also answered something else which puzzled me..........why has a 5 cylinder non turbo 100% mechanical Diesel got an ECU? Now I know!
Oh, and I love the car BTW, I bought this as a booby prize because I very narrowly missed out on a /8 220D but I've really grown to love it, now not regretting the way it panned out at all!
Thanks for the help.
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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stwat
Part of things
Posts: 546
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It could well be the centre bearing that has worn if there is a lot of play. That would also make a metallic clonking sound when moved by hand. You can buy a repair kit from MB for not much money. I always check the prices at Merc before buying elswhere as they are often cheaper than places like ECP and GSF. For part numbers i use this site. partscatalog.ru/Then get the price from MB online here www.mercedes-benz-parts.co.uk/. Remember to remove any spaces in the part number after cutting and pasting from the rusky site. |
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Last Edit: May 6, 2012 22:29:46 GMT by stwat
1992 190E 1.8 manual
1989 300SE Low mileage LuxoBarge
1988 190e 2.6. 1988 190 2.3-16 Cosworth
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Thanks very much for the links, I'll start with the center bearing, UJ and do-nut kits and go from there, once my new ignition barrel turns up that is, seeing as the current one is now iffy at best!
Cheers,
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Quick question, has your car got a flywheel sensor? It would be near the starter if it has, and is the rev counter working?
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Flywheel sensor not sure, would go and look now but the heavens just opened (again) here!
I'll wait until it drops off a bit.
Rev counter is present and functioning correctly.
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Quick question, has your car got a flywheel sensor? It would be near the starter if it has, and is the rev counter working? Right I managed to get a little look, I can't give a 100% positive ID but I think I spy a flywheel sensor quite low down below the starter motor. That would make sense, seeing as I have a tacho! |
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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If i's got a flywheel sensor that means it has got an electronic idle control system, that can play up and give a surging effect when pulling away.
There is a grey 2 or 3 pin plug infront of the brake servo that is for that sensor, disconnect it and it should idle slower and rougher. The tacho will stop working too.
If the idle stays the same then it has been messed with at the pump.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Thanks for that.
I'll have to conclude activities until my new key cylinder arrives then, starting the car requires about 15 minutes of fiddling with the key at the mo and I don't want the cylinder falling apart any more because you need to get it to the ACC position to remove it!
The evidence of bodgery around the pump seems to be a tie up piece of rubber (inner tube?) helping to hold a little damper on the throttle lever assembly. It seems like the inlet manifold has been off at some point in the past and anything small which attaches to the manifold seems to be tie wrapped, broken or mildly bodged.
I'm really quite surprised how much technology stuff there is on this car TBH, before I bought it I was thinking pre-facelift W124 with an IDI non turbo engine, this thing is going to be simplicity all the way but it seems there's a few little techno quirks sat there waiting to catch me out.
Oh well, I still love it!
Cheers,
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Thanks for that. I'll have to conclude activities until my new key cylinder arrives then, starting the car requires about 15 minutes of fiddling with the key at the mo and I don't want the cylinder falling apart any more because you need to get it to the ACC position to remove it! Cheers, If you need any more bit's give me a shout, I've got a tonn of stuff lurking about for these cars. |
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Famous last words but.........................
I'm intending on keeping it for eva (for ever, ever?) and making it really nice therefore I appreciate that offer.
Starter for 10, I have only 2 dash speakers (Morocco taxi spec) and would like to add more, but in a very subtle way, got anything that might help me?
BTW You far from me? I'm Milton Keynes.
Cheers,
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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Famous last words but......................... I'm intending on keeping it for eva (for ever, ever?) and making it really nice therefore I appreciate that offer. Starter for 10, I have only 2 dash speakers (Morocco taxi spec) and would like to add more, but in a very subtle way, got anything that might help me? BTW You far from me? I'm Milton Keynes. Cheers, Rob I'm in high wycombe, so not far at all. Have you got speaker grill's on the rear parcel shelve? |
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp
1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon
1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered!
1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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