djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Can anyone answer this? My 306 1.9 diesel chucks out a lot of smoke at higher speeds, its also pretty sluggish (should have bought a turbo version!), however when you push the throttle past about 4/5 of the way down it seems to wake up and shift, albeit whilst pumping out a thick haze of visible black smoke!
It's strange because you could be accelerating in any gear and just pushing the throttle that little bit further so that it reaches this point in its travel has such an uncorrespondingly large effect on progress! Is something wrong or in need of adjustment on the fuel system?
Don't know if it's relevant but when I serviced it last week it was waaaaaaay overdue, the air filter was a right mess! The oil stank and was black but I understand tis the way of the diesel the second you turn the key after a change!
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 7:22:38 GMT by djefk
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Smoke means one of two things - oil being burnt or excess fuel. Oil smoke is blue whereas overfueling is black. Has it recently passed an MOT ie emissions checked ? You could try some injector cleaner in the fuel but suspect that reconditioned injectors are probably needed if over 70,000 miles and they haven't been changed / reconditioned before. The Peugeot items are a common injector so often are avaiable on an exchange basis. Forget accessory shops - look for a diesel specialist. They unscrew the "working end" that is in the combustion chamber and change it along with the centre "needle". There is also a spring inside that can stick causing the injector to "dribble". Don't bother trying to DIY recondition as parts can be difficult to find and they can be a PIA to dissassemble plus there is a risk of damaging the injector, . Think of injectors like spark plugs - they don't last forever and need changing every so often.
paul H
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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It passed in November and just rolled over 145k miles. It's black smoke not blue at all.
So do you think both the smoke and the strange power delivery are related to worn injectors? Also is the actual removal / replacement a DIY job and what would it cost me in parts?
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Last Edit: Apr 22, 2012 9:22:41 GMT by djefk
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It passed in November and just rolled over 145k miles. It's black smoke not blue at all. So do you think both the smoke and the strange power delivery are related to worn injectors? Also is the actual removal / replacement a DIY job and what would it cost me in parts? I can't guarantee it's injectors but black smoke is definatley an overfueling problem so choice is either pump (expensive) injectors or timing (doubtful). Removal of injectors is as easy as a spark plug. You need a suitable deep socket so probably best buying one made for the purpose. Every time you remove an injector you need to change the copper sealing washer. These cost pence from a specialist. This often is stuck in the head and needs to be hooked out with screwdriver or similar. Looking at the working end of the injector you should see only the smallest bit of the needle - maybe 0.5mm. Over time the body errodes so more of the needle is visible. If you remove the injectors a specialist will be able to put them on a test rig to check spray pattern and a decent one will tell you if they need changing, cleaning or are OK. Under no circumstances try this at home - the pressures involved can spray diesel into the skin as easily as a hypodermic needle. Secondhand injectors can often be useable so worth checking out eBay and scrapyards. At worse they can be used as core units for reconditioning so your car doesn't need to come off the road. No idea of current costs but last time I had Peugeot injectors reconditioned (for 205) I paid under £15 each. Paul h
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Apr 22, 2012 11:29:31 GMT
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Have you tried it since the new air filter? That can make a huge difference!
Another possibility - someone has altered the pump stop in the quest for more power and gone a bit too far leading to the smoke. The NA diesels are not very fast so that part is normal!
If wanting to try a system cleaner I find the Toolstation one very effective and about 1/2 the price of most of the others.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Apr 22, 2012 11:48:11 GMT
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If yours is a lucas pump, when tuned they tend to make a LOT of smoke if done even slightly too much, without the corresponding amount of power you'd normally expect!
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Apr 22, 2012 11:48:19 GMT
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Was the previous owner likely to have fiddled with it to make it go faster? Depending on the pump, you can adjust the fuelling which can make a small difference to the power with the result of clouds of unburned fuel out the back.
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I've got Rovers.
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 22, 2012 13:51:55 GMT
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It's a Lucas pump - So I'm guessing that to attempt to fix the unequal power delivery issue and the smoke I should first try recon injectors first and then if that doesn't help look at fuel pump settings? How would I tune the pump, would it be covered in the Haynes manual?
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 22, 2012 13:57:43 GMT
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Oh and the previous owner was a lady that had it for 12 years with no mods at all so don't think it's been fiddled with, I serviced it as soon as I got it and yes made a big difference but still have the problem(s) as above.
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Apr 22, 2012 17:03:36 GMT
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I doubt Haynes will show you, but there's loads of decent videos on YouTube for tuning 306 diesels and pump fiddling.
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I've got Rovers.
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 22, 2012 19:33:31 GMT
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Apr 22, 2012 20:50:42 GMT
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Personally i'de go to a diesel injection place and get the existing ones checked and reset to the right pressure last time i has some done it was £12 each cash
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,791
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Unless you have the relevant equipment to set your injectors, ie a pressure tester, then you'll do more harm than good if you try and do that yourself. I work pretty much exclusively on old diesel engines and even we don't mess about with stuff like injectors and pumps, it all goes off to the fuel shop to be set up properly. If you want the best from your car, I would suggest you do the same Black smoke is produced by one of 2 things; Either excess unburnt fuel or insufficient air for combustion. The first is caused by pump settings being incorrect (overload stop/excess fuel settings wrong The second is usually a choked Air filter
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 23, 2012 15:24:09 GMT
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Right, today I was on the way from London to near Horsham and Haywards Heath to pick up some roof bars for it. I went past a place called First Diesel Injection near Croydon. Bearing in mind the comments here I thought I'd stop and ask for a professional diagnosis.
The owner (Peter Bourne) was great. Stopped what he was doing and came out for a look - after some hard revving and filling up his yard with smoke he pronounced the EGR valve faulty and blocked off its vacuum pipe with a ball bearing.
He said don't put any fuel cleaner in, don't try pulling the injectors (he said even though he was sure they'd be past their best at that mileage, they look rusted in and could strip their threads) and don't use low sulphur supermarket fuel. Then he sent me on my way by telling me to give it a good motorway blast. Result after 50 miles at 80 - 90 mph? Problem solved, it feels like a sports car in comparison and no smoke at all!
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Last Edit: Apr 23, 2012 15:26:52 GMT by djefk
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,426
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Apr 23, 2012 18:26:06 GMT
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result!!
bet you're annoyed he told you not to tinker though, see you tomorrow for electrickery!
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