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Apr 12, 2012 17:42:10 GMT
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Clever people of RR, I have a question...
On my current Merc project, the engine uses a Hall effect sensor (could possibly be VR, but I think it's Hall...) and a toothed ring on the flexplate / ring gear assembly.
I want to change to a solid flywheel (manual swap) but this doesn't have the toothed trigger wheel.
To get around this, I was going to make a smaller trigger wheel to mount on the front of the crankshaft, and relocate the sensor.
Now, 60-2 trigger wheels aren't readily available in the UK (only 36-1) as far as I can see, so I was going to have one cut.
So, the question: Does the trigger wheel in a Hall effect application have to be magnetic? Or is it enough that it's made of a ferrous metal?
As I understand it, a VR sensor just needs a ferrous metal trigger wheel.
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Last Edit: Apr 12, 2012 17:42:27 GMT by BenzBoy
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Apr 12, 2012 19:25:47 GMT
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I'm not quite sure how a VR sensor works, but as far as I'm aware a Hall sensor works on magnetism and thus needs the magnets in the original ring.
Perhaps you could change the sensor from Hall to VR?
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Apr 12, 2012 23:04:54 GMT
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I'll venture that if it has two pins it'll be passive and if three pins then it'll likely be a hall sensor. I'm aware that the cables for VR sensors are screened, so they could also have a third pin at the sensor end. Ford ones don't though. I think VR sensors always have a magnetic tip too. Anyway, if it was VR then drilling a pattern of blind holes in the pulley works for some folk. Here's an example with pics. Notice they milled a slot for the missing tooth. I figured you don't need to bother with that and can have a missing hole instead by simply reversing the two connections to the pickup and offsetting the pattern by 5 degrees. The holes don't even apparently need to be all that deep (with a Ford set up at least). Perhaps a similar approach could be taken with a hall effect sensor by epoxying some small neodymium magnets into the pattern of holes. |
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Last Edit: Apr 12, 2012 23:27:45 GMT by Clamity
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Apr 13, 2012 16:29:28 GMT
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Apr 13, 2012 16:30:13 GMT
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Joostvw - I'd rather not swap sensors - the Bosch system is staying standard as I don't want to complicate things if / when the car doesn't fire right away after the conversion! ;D
Calamity - lots of great info there, thanks! I love the idea of drilling the pulley - a very neat solution! I'll get a closer look at things tomorrow and try to make certail whether it's a Hall or VR sensor, and see what options I have for swapping things about.
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Apr 13, 2012 18:02:16 GMT
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Great stuff, thanks! Looking around the internet at parts pictures, it may be that I have a VR sensor, which would make things slightly easier, and hopefully mean I can do a similar thing to Calamity's link. Tomorrow I'll check how many wires it has - three or more would mean a Hall sensor I think. |
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Apr 13, 2012 18:27:02 GMT
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Bosch sensors are pretty particular on set up
I have some info including datum trigger wheels for set up if you need it ?
My new billet steel TTV flywheel has a trigger wheel set up on it to use the standard sensor in the standard ford location....
If you are making the flywheel anyway, I'd try and replicate the standard mounting.
Hall and vr sensors also give a different waveform output so it's not always as simple as swapping one for another
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Apr 13, 2012 18:54:24 GMT
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interesting topic, i want to put an aftermarket electronic speedo into my W115, most seem to use hall sensors which is annoying seeing as i have a toothed wheels and VR sensors in the diff (ABS) and gearbox (the original speedo pickup) whic i would like to use. Can a VR signal be converted to hall type output?
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1992 190E 2.0 - first car, currently being driven by the wife.
1989 500SEC
1968 W115 4.2 V8
2000 CL500
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Apr 13, 2012 19:34:09 GMT
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Bosch sensors are pretty particular on set up I have some info including datum trigger wheels for set up if you need it ? My new billet steel TTV flywheel has a trigger wheel set up on it to use the standard sensor in the standard ford location.... If you are making the flywheel anyway, I'd try and replicate the standard mounting. Hall and vr sensors also give a different waveform output so it's not always as simple as swapping one for another Thanks Dom.  The flywheel I'm using is from an earlier C-Class which uses Siemens PMS and a simpler two-tooth trigger set-up on the flywheel. It's the only solid flywheel for this engine however, all subsequent models had dual-mass, which I'm trying to avoid. If the Bosch sensors are that sensitive - and I'm really trying to avoid adding extra complications into this project - maybe a better option would be to grind off the 60-2 trigger wheel from the flexplate and weld it to the solid flywheel, and get it re-balanced? That way, as long as I get the trigger wheel in the right (original) position, everything else should be fine. This was supposed to be a simple auto-to-manual swap! ;D |
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The flywheel I'm using is from an earlier C-Class which uses Siemens PMS and a simpler two-tooth trigger set-up on the flywheel. It's the only solid flywheel for this engine however, all subsequent models had dual-mass, which I'm trying to avoid.