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Sept 17, 2014 15:10:54 GMT
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Practice on some scrap first, see how badly wrong you get it and go from there. That's the theory I'm going by at any rate, I'm not admitting defeat and getting a Real Person (tm) in to help me out because I'm stubborn and know I can (and have) do this thing! --- From the information and advice given I can say now with certainty that most of the time I'm moving the torch too fast. I also probably have the power and wire feed up a little too high so I'll give those a tweak. Have to admit to doing no welding at all today, I'm burned out from working all day at the unit and then all night at my desk on artwork, neither of which I'm getting as far with as I'd like. So, because I was so utterly exhausted today I called it quits at about 2pm and decided to let myself recover rather than risk injuring myself with power tools. I did get some progress done. Drilled out the spotwelds holding the strengthening bar on and the couple of tack welds on one edge of it, I'm wondering if the floor has been done before, but if it has I can't easily find the patches, bit of an odd one that. Lifted it out to get better access to the hole floor pan underneath it and chopped that out. Also found a little bit more on the other side of the jacking point that needed chopping out. Got a bit brutal with the flapwheel and grinder disc to get rid of as much rust as possible before giving it all a blitz with the weld-through primer. I'm happy that this is all back to the best metal it can be and is ready to take some new metal, I'm even going to try and copy the original floor pressing shapes. I got as far as cutting out a panel for the inner sill repair from the old bonnet I've got and putting it in place with magnets. Then I realised it'd be easier to weld from outside the car so I need to go over this side of the original inner sill to make sure it's properly weld friendly before starting on that. The other thing I achieved was making the hole for the new telltale in the purple dash insert so that's now ready for filling, sanding and painting. The black plastics for the dash have received a little bit of chrome too, but there's more to complete there so I'll share pictures of that when I get the dash back in one piece and ready to go in the car.
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Sept 17, 2014 15:22:36 GMT
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I would say you're running a bit hot on that bit you posted and try upping the regulator pressure from the gas bottle.
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Sept 17, 2014 17:14:30 GMT
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agree, looks like its been machine gunning off the metal too. to be honest continuous weld on metal that thin will always be aggro
if you take the power and wire feed back a bit, slow things down, zig zag or loop as you go, its possible to get the same amount of heat/penetration just from the act of lingering. alternatively try overlapping spots method where you lay a puddle, half let go of trigger (so gas is still flowing) backup the torch slightly then lay the next puddle half over over the previous. again, this lets you slow things down. take control and get on top of the assault on the senses
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Sept 17, 2014 19:09:38 GMT
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I' ve a bad habit of moving the torch too quickly, unfortunately unless someone tells me to slow down I don't realise until that bit is finished and I have a look not through the mask... Zigzagging does the trick for me though. Are you pushing the weld our dragging it?
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Sept 17, 2014 21:08:04 GMT
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I'm dragging rather than pushing, never tried pushing but I imagine it'd slow me down a bit. I'm feeling much better now so I'm going to have another go at this tomorrow by tacking in that inner sill patch. Once I get comfortable with this I should be able to get my head into the right space and blitz through it. At least this bit doesn't have to be pretty as it's not seen, it just has to be strong.
I'll have a go with a bit of wiggling rather than trying for straight lines once I've got the panel tacked in, I've a feeling that'll help from what I've been seeing on Youtube and the welding forum and other people's build threads. There's a LOT of info out there for welding, it can be both helpful and completely overwhelming.
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Sept 17, 2014 21:49:15 GMT
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I started typing a reply as if I could help or advise you. But then I realised your going about it in the right way, practising on scrap and just trying to get the hang of it. You seem to be approaching it with a level head.
I'm a beginner with the welder and have mainly learned through mistakes. If you look at my 924 thread you'll see me battling with my own lack of confidence, there were points where I just couldn't 'see' how all the bits needed to join or where to start. It came together ok in the end, but I should have cut a little further back to thicker metal in places. What looks pretty decent by eye and finger touch can suddenly seem pretty thin when the welder blows through all the time!
I enjoy following your threads, keep up the good work.
-Steve-
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Sept 18, 2014 9:00:48 GMT
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Run a bead the whole way across your workpiece, note down the settings, then run another one along side it. Making a note each time. You'll be able to look back and how what you changed affected what the bead was like. Just keep stacking the beads.
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Sept 18, 2014 9:53:14 GMT
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To be honest welding with a MAG on such thin metal is always going to be a hassle. I'd try to lay down some spots, on in the middle of the joint first and then one on each side maybe an inch apart, and keep going like this until I'm at the end of the joint, and then fill the gaps between the spots with more spots. A lot less heat, but good penetration still, you just have to set maybe a tad higher wire speed to help with re-melting the existing spots of weld I just bought a welder to tackle the Maser and the Alfa, but I chose a TIG. Very good penetration, just the right amount of added metal, little heat, and easy to adapt to each joint! I'll see how I fare though, I'm not too optimist.
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,609
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Sept 18, 2014 13:10:20 GMT
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Experiencing Mig welding frustration myself right now doing some for the first time in a while. Glad I still have more frilly metal in place still to use as a guide shaping my replacement metal before cutting it out. And not so many intersecting pieces to deal with. Sticking to individual spots at the moment, waiting a moment until the metal cools just enough for the mask to un-darken, before immediately adding the next overlapping spot as I tended to blast through trying to do anything longer. Preliminary spots around the part first as Clement says to locate it all. It is satisfying to find a rhythm that works properly. Then I find an area I have not cleaned up enough for a clean weld or a thinner patch where the hole keeps blasting bigger & I try filling with more weld with messier results!
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Sept 18, 2014 20:55:39 GMT
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Today has been a day of obstacles. Yes, I did get some welding done and yes, I got a couple of patches cut out and mostly put in place. But I also found out that the Princess is evicted from the unit tomorrow rather than Sunday for reasons I don't really understand so my time to work on her was shortened rather a lot. For the inner sill I needed the power at 4 and the wire speed at 3 but for the floor pan I had to turn it down to 2 for power and nearly 2 for wire speed. Seemed a bit counter intuitive as the floor pan metal both for the patch and the original material is a good bit more solid and not-rusty than the inner sill I was sorting out. After a very shaky start where nothing I achieved on the scrap could be achieved on the car, I worked my way through the pigeon poo and started to get some reasonable welds. I kept going with a bit of zigzagging and did some pretty ugly welding, but it wouldn't come off with hammer, hands or pliers so I deemed it solid enough and it was making that lovely sizzle as I got the settings right and did some work from the inside. I tried to grind it back a bit but then realised it was pretty pointless as this bit just isn't visible at all. The cabin side is much tidier anyway. So because she's going to have to head outside I blatted some primer and then some top coat (not shown) on to keep the weather out. Didn't take very long to do the welding bit so I had enough time to make a patch for the floor, shaped to match the pressing of the floor pan as much as possible. I wanted to use the tin snips to cut this patch out, it would've been easier, but they had been borrowed so I had to use the air-nibbler which I'm not getting on with particularly well and had to have someone else help cut out that last bit of the panel. Reasonable fit, but not perfect, happily a good enough match for me to at least fill most of the hole in the floor. Started welding this in and it went LOVELY and then, for no obvious reason, the welding all went to curse word. Took me a while to realise the gas bottle was empty. That put paid to any further progress and now I'm in the uncomfortable position of having to put an unfinished car outside until we can get the gas bottle recharged. All I could do was slap some primer on and hope it'll be okay for a bit, there's nothing else I can do. There may be a cover I can borrow, but that's about it. Still, it felt like progress and I was enjoying it, particularly when I was managing to lay some neat and tidy welds. The floor is far easier to work on than that inner sill, I can actually see what I'm doing. To the left of this image is some of the first welds I was laying down, to the right the ones that were all bacon-sizzle and quick. The nicer welds also didn't have any of that nasty looking burn. And this is the floor repair just about when the gas ran out. Despite all of this, I do enjoy welding, and I really enjoy fabricating patch panels. It's like sewing, but with man points.
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Sept 19, 2014 18:10:18 GMT
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at this early stage in learning, when butt welding two pieces of steel you can back the piece with some copper or aluminium. i just use a short length of 22mm domestic water pipe flattened into a rectangle strip, even an old 2p will do on small areas. it will eliminate holing your work as the weld wont stick to non ferrous, and also heat sinks the area for the same net result. also if i may be so bold i would reiterate the overlapping spot weld method, you will have an epiphany when welding thin steel like your floor pan (thin meaning any body panels) i can honestly say i use this for all welding below 2mm steel, which is pretty much everything in non load bearing areas heres a video i did a couple years ago using a clarke 151TE and this was the resulting weld
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Last Edit: Sept 19, 2014 18:15:50 GMT by darrenh
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Sept 19, 2014 19:38:59 GMT
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Today has been a day of obstacles. Despite all of this, I do enjoy welding, and I really enjoy fabricating patch panels. It's like sewing, but with man points. Not enough heat in those welds, bead is too narrow and sitting on top. More power needed but keep wire speed down. Do as Darran says above, joint your spots together. When welding upside down you will need to up the power by 1 and up the speed by 1 or 2 points to achieve the same weld as doing it from above.
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Sept 19, 2014 19:42:34 GMT
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I would hate to say it but i would re do that .
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Sept 19, 2014 21:15:20 GMT
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I've barely even started the floor patch so redoing isn't an issue. I'm going to flap the inner sill back and redo as required. Can't do anything until we get the gas bottle recharged, so I'm on hold at the moment.
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,410
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Sept 22, 2014 15:06:29 GMT
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Have I missed something here?! Where's vulg gone? I really enjoy his updates!
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dazcapri
North East
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,057
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Sept 22, 2014 16:00:28 GMT
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Have I missed something here?! Where's vulg gone? I really enjoy his updates! Me too I don't think I've ever posted in one of his threads but I always enjoy reading them
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Mk3 Capri LS
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,256
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Sept 22, 2014 16:16:01 GMT
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Have I missed something here?! Where's vulg gone? I really enjoy his updates! Err, he was the last person to comment On the thread before you did?..
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dazcapri
North East
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,057
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Sept 22, 2014 16:29:08 GMT
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Have I missed something here?! Where's vulg gone? I really enjoy his updates! Err, he was the last person to comment On the thread before you did?.. Look at his username properly he's a guest now with no posts that means his account has been deleted
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Mk3 Capri LS
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qwerty
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,410
Club RR Member Number: 52
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Sept 22, 2014 16:56:56 GMT
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Err, he was the last person to comment On the thread before you did?.. Look at his username properly he's a guest now with no posts that means his account has been deleted That is to what I was referring.
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Sept 22, 2014 17:28:42 GMT
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How strange, I hope he's not left us...?! Very peculiar indeed and very worrying also...
Where are ya Vulg'...?!?!?!
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***GARAGE CURRENTLY EMPTY***
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