Mr K
Posted a lot
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On the kitten project i am sticking to drum brakes for now due to disc's being hard to fit (physically fitting a disc to the hub is the problem). my idea was to mound a nozzle out on a small strut in front of the drum, and plumb this into a large washer bottle type container with the pump wired into the brake light switch and an over ride switch on the dash (to turn it off), i would also fit some kind of temp guage to keep an eye on them... Another way to set it up would be to use a button the the steering wheel / floor / g/nob to control when it was on, depending on the gage or maybe a buzzer when they reach a certain temp, however this would be a bit of a pain. the only problems i can see is that it may warp the drum? however would this not be a problem if the drum was constantly cooled, never reaching a high temp? (so not turning on the cooling once they are damn hot!), also, the quantity of water needed, to be effective i would need a pretty hefty flow, meaning i would run out quick, however not really a problem as how often do you drive a road car hard, on the brakes, etc etc and it is only water! have i missed something? why ant we all at it? after all water posses 7 times the thermal efficiency of air! P.S. racing trucks do it, AND THEY ARE COOL!  |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Water cooled brakes!slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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don't foget brakes don't work well when they are cold, you need to maintain the temp at the right level rather than cold as possible.
I would say warpage is yor biggest worry.
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 cool idea...[excuse the pun!  ],but is it really necessary?
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I don't know enough about them to say that it would or wouldnt work.
I would have thought that fitting water cooling and a temperature probe would actually be more work than fitting discs though. I would have thought to get an accurate reading you would probaly need a couple of K type probes (one for each drum) mounted into the drum to give a fairly accurate reading and normal thermouple cable is not a particularly flexible material so probably wouldnt last so long being moved on the suspension all the time. Unless you wanted to fit some form of thermistor type sensor that you could use to wire into a temp control circuit that would pump water automatically once it reached a certain temp.
Whats the problem with fitting discs to teh current hubs
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   Tell you what, the trucks have changed a bit since i last watched it!  I would be careful with this, as thermal shock could cause the drums to crack, leading to some seriously bad concequences :-\ If the water is constant from the instant the brakes are applied (like from the brake light switch as you said) then it should work fine, as the water is there as the brakes heat up. I would put a second switch so its only on when you want it, again youd have to be careful as to when you switched it on, I'm guessing this is where the temp gauge comes in? Either ways steaming brakes would be a right hoot! J EDIT - one of these is what you need - www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3258&criteria=temperature%20&doy=4m10It has a settable buzzer output that could trigger the water supply when they are hot enough, and switch it off when the temp drops. |
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Last Edit: Oct 4, 2006 21:40:23 GMT by Blown_Imp
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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well, i get fade on the stock kitten ( all be it with a stock drum and shoe, inside a little steel wheel and a fibreglass cacoon!
my theory behind not going to discs is that its so much hassel, and the brakes where initially designed for a mini, and work realy well when at the right temp, not to mention the new kitten wont actually be exceeding the 100mph mark, as they are scarey at that speed! and i want acceration to 100mph.... and nothing after as this is what i would say you need most on the road (how often do you do 160mph.....)
warpage is my biggest concern! however i could only see that happening if water was applied to an already good n proper hot drum? i realise its not gonna acheive 100% efficiency... not by a long shot, and therefore the brakes will warm between uses, but my plan was to slow this accent to fade, not remove it! and once they got to warm switch off the system to prevent damage. does that make scence?
this will be working with a few other things, such as:
- removeal of inner wings,
- a 10x6 alloy wheel bolted to them being a nice heat sink
- ducting
- a top secret front susspension modification sure to make you weak at the knees!
cheers for the comments! keep em coming, as i said, its only an idea so I'm open to a slating, sudgestion... or indeed praise.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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cheers J, thats exactly what i thought.
Fitting discs would be a right pain, as hubs are reliants own creation and have no where to fit a disc.... about the only way is to re drill a existing disc / get it machined down and i don't have the facilities. (not to mention fitting them under a 10" wheel.
maybe i need to look at discs for a while more, as i have some metro 4 pot calipers sitting there waiting for a use...
as for making the water cooling system, an experimental one could be on the beige kitten in a matter of 30mins for testing.
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 Brake fade is often due to manky old fluid,though I guess you knew that.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Brake fade is often due to manky old fluid,though I guess you knew that. its running new fluid, lines, slave cylinders, and shoes all round, old back plates and drums mind, but it certainly does fade to the non existant point! |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Water cooled brakes!slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Are we talking pad (shoe!) fad or fluid fade?
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If it's only going to take you half an hour to set it up for a test you may as well give it a go ;D Would be interesting to see if it makes any difference! I like the idea of crazy heath robinson gizmos, make sure you have plenty of toggle switches and maybe one of those missile arming switches to arm it ;D  |
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If you're rollin' with mini brakes, won't some oldskool minifins do the job better?
*n
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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I like the idea. I can't help feeling though that you'd stand too much chance of shattering a drum, or just losing brake efficency by spraying water over effective pad area...drums don't shed water as well as discs.
I'm sure you could rig up a test system though - basic but effective enough to prove the theory!
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madmart
Part of things
love is: valvebounce in top gear
Posts: 559
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its a good idea but there is lots of potential probs imo, minifins are the way to go they also lower the unsprung weight. maybe drill the drums? like cross drilled discs are would help the air get around, brake fade is nasty because your usally caning int when it happens
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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its shoe (pad) fade I'm suffering.
minifins would fit if you open the centre bore out apparnetly as it looks like reliant used mini drums with smaller bores, and this is my plan, i just liked the watercooled idea!
i do agree that there is too much that could go wrong, but how do racing trucks get away with it?
i dout much water would enter the drum, if any so long as the nozzle was set up right, allthoiugh you cant take into account for how the wheel will blow it all about.
We will see. back to the drawing board me thinks!
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i've been putting some thought into this so here goes,
racing trucks use discs and discs are better at dispersing water.
how much water do you intend carrying ? i'm thinking here of weight of water sloshing around,where to keep it and how much would you need to cart around for say a day's motoring?
would drilling the drums run the risk of stress fractures and couldnt balance be an issue?
reliant's dipped into other peoples parts bin,is the front suspension nicked off something else? could you fit a disc front end off something else instead?
what about better linings? could you get the shoes relined with a better material?
could discs on the back be an option,possibly with a balance valve?
like i say just thoughts.
ANDY
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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the problem with discs up front is that the uprights, wishbones, hubs, wheel bearings, top ball joint, steering rack, steering arm etc etc is all reliants own design, only used on the kitten! making parts hard to get... the brakes are mini, which makes everyone assume you can fit mini discs.... however the hub on a mini is a million miles from the kitten one (it has a drive shaft going through it for a start!)
the disc would realy need to sit on the front face of the hub, with a 4" pcd and a screw hole in it (like the drums normaly do).
mounting the caliper is easy.
ill post some pics of the hub up later, but you certainly cant bolt a disc to the back!
as i said before, performance linings, minifins, ducting, and a few other bits n bobs will all help.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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oooo!!!
CALLING ALISTAIRK!
Vauxhall Firenza 0 0
Vauxhall Victor 0 0
Vauxhall Magnum 0 0
Vauxhall Viva
all have the same pcd, so might have a suitable disc... anyone got pics / scannings of the haynes of the discs from the above cars (i realise that there are lots of specs within these models - so bassically anything thats 4x4" pcd)
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2006 10:01:42 GMT by Mr K
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imps are 4" pcd also and there are kits out there to convert drums to discs on the front using saab or micra discs and fiesta callipers.they wont fit under 10" rims but will go under 12" and 13"'s.theres a kit on ebat the mo'.
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madmart
Part of things
love is: valvebounce in top gear
Posts: 559
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micra discs are a small diameter, 100mm pcd and on minis they use mk1 fiesta calipers with 10 inch wheels, there very slim calipers. possible combo to fit within 10inch wheels?
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cool idea...[excuse the pun! 
],but is it really necessary?
[*]
[*]
Brake fade is often due to manky old fluid,though I guess you knew that. 
